Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869354
@T6Harvard Currently reading Jet Man: The Making and Breaking of Frank Whittle, Genius of the Jet Revolution
Its a hard read but very interesting. The civil service & the government as we finish WW2 come out with no credit whatsoever.
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869355
jcal wrote:
tr7v8 wrote:flap lever that was a handbrake lever stolen from a car

:lol:

Very cool experience @tr7v8! I'm really looking forward getting out of my backyard at North Weald, but there'll be time for that yet.

If you were to choose for the rest of your training, would you fly the PA28 or the C172?

Hmm hard to say, as only had 1 hour in the PA28, which is a LOT older than the 172 I fly, different instructor & Jersey airport is a whole different animal to Rochester. I think the PA28 is slightly easier to fly, it doesn't have the massive trim changes which the 172 does. I suspect once you have your licence you wouldn't worry BUT when you're doing circuits at Rochester which take 8-10 minutes it is yet something else to deal with in terms of workload. I am getting better but I sometimes feel like a one armed paper hanger dealing with it all.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869361
Oh, that's a tease! Here's me (stuck visiting rellies :D ) away from flying, next lesson not till 17th. I'm getting twitchy, esp now I am allowed to land a few :lol:

New instructor txtd to suggest stall recovery with flaps and in turns, and descending turns in first hour, to ensure my safe handling at low level, before an hour of circuits in the afternoon. I think he wants his own input on slow flight, which will be helpful. Tbf I didn't do anything untoward last week (only stall warner was at about 1' agl :mrgreen: ) but I'm grateful for any guidance.
The guy clearly wants to teach and to help me catch up a bit! I can't wait :D
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869740
Had a phone call driving back from the holiday yesterday to say that the C172 I have been learning in has been involved in an incident & will be unavailable & would be moved to one of the older C172s at Rochester. I subsequently found out that it was the one that crashed near Ashford. It won't be coming back.
By tcc1000
#1869752
Having learnt on the C152/C150 and now flying a choice of PA28s, I will give you this, from by pretty limited experience.

"PA28" covers at least 7 or 8 different aircraft, some of which have significant differences. The group I'm in has a PA28-140 (Cherokee) and a PA28-161 (Warrior II), the latter being slightly longer, more powerful engine and a different wing

The PA-140 has trim on a handle you wind in the ceiling. You don't have to trim a lot with each stage of flap, but I do tend to. The nose drops, particularly with the 2nd stage of flap (although trim is up to get the speed for approach). It doesn't float much at all, so arguably it's easiest to land - the stall warner tends to come on quite early.

The 150 and 152 float a little bit more, but not a lot. I think they bounce around a bit more in the wind. I've found crosswind landings easier in them, but I put that down to experience, not the choice of aircraft.

The 172 floats more than the 152 with the bigger wings.

The PA28-161 floats a lot more than the -140 (probably similar to the 172) due to the different wing. It has a trim wheel (and electric trim too in this particular instance). With the electric trim under your thumb, I tend to blip it a lot if it's not right.

So if I was learning again, what would I pick?
Easy - the Tecnam Sierra. It's got a Rotax 912, so at least half the fuel consumption (although same price for lessons). Performance is better - if you've not got traffic in front you can reduce the upwind leg and turn crosswind earlier, probably getting an extra circuit in over the course of the lesson. It's quite slippery, so you do have to fly it accurately to get the speed right (and the speed at which you extend flaps is quite low). It also needs a lot of right rudder for prop slipstream balance - which is good practice and easy for students to get away not doing in a 152). It does float a fair bit, although it doesn't need much of a ground run to get (back) into the air.
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869761
And two entries for my logbook for today. Had to change aircraft as my previous training steed won't be coming back. So ended up in CW which is an older C172. Woke up to low cloud & fairly warm. Wind not to bad. First lesson was 12:00, felt weird to be in CW as it was the one I started flying in. Flying off of 20 so can do EFATO etc. Did a mix of normal, flapless & glide approaches. Went pretty well, best by far. So quite happy. 1:00 for my logbook.
So now 42 lessons & 41 hours 30mins in.
Went home for an hour or so (I live 10 mins from Rochester) and went back for the next lesson just after 3.
Bit more settled in now but it was much warmer & sunnier. Didn't go quite as well, not bad but not as good as the earlier one. My instructor thought it maybe tiredness, he could well be right. So another 55minutes in the logbook & end of another page.
So now 43 lessons & 42 hours 25mins in.

Annoying next week as work gets in the way of flying :evil: So lesson booked for Thursday & Friday. I now need to shuffle bookings around as CW is booked out at different times.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869763
That's good @tr7v8, after all that's happened.

I'm having trouble getting availability now!! A/c only avail for an hour on Friday next then new instructor is off the week after. Grrrr.

Still revising for Tues.....
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869830
tcc1000 wrote:The PA-140.... doesn't float much at all...

The 150 and 152 float a little bit more, but not a lot......

The 172 floats more than the 152 with the bigger wings....

The PA28-161 floats a lot more than the -140 (probably similar to the 172) due to the different wing.


Thank you for this insightful post about the landing characteristics of a number of aircraft.

I'd be very interested to know the aircraft weight and airspeed entering the hold-off in each of the cases you've evaluated.

This is the student forum, of course, so the mods might wish to split this out into a separate thread before it becomes too technical.
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By jcal
#1869866
Two lessons in a day @tr7v8 huh, I would be knackered. Always exhausted after only one hour or flying!

T6Harvard wrote:I'm having trouble getting availability now!!

Same here @T6Harvard.. Got 2 more lessons booked but then nothing available until end of October! Going to be hounding the booking system for last minute cancellations.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869868
New instructor is available but no a/c!

The first one I flew LAST SEPTEMBER (!) flipped on it's back the following day due to running out of fuel and making a forced landing in a field. Pilot uninjured but a/c still awaiting return to fleet.
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869892
jcal wrote:Two lessons in a day @tr7v8 huh, I would be knackered. Always exhausted after only one hour or flying!

T6Harvard wrote:I'm having trouble getting availability now!!

Same here @T6Harvard.. Got 2 more lessons booked but then nothing available until end of October! Going to be hounding the booking system for last minute cancellations.

It wasn't a good idea to be honest & I won't be doing it again. I am pretty sure that it knocked my confidence a bit after having a great lesson earlier.
Went through my diary & the flying schools online system this morning. Then wrote a war & peace email, cancelled two & booked around 6 more lessons. Made a decision to stay with one C172, there is another but it is even older & I struggle to get in & out, despite being 18 Kg lighter than when I started. Also at this point don't want to start switching between two different versions, with their slightly foibles.
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By Milty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869914
tr7v8 wrote:Also at this point don't want to start switching between two different versions, with their slightly foibles.


This is one of the things that intrigues me about my introduction to flying. I had the impression (naively) that there was more standardisation in the aviation world. At the start, it’s all ‘checklists’, ratings on specific aircraft, you can’t just hire a plane without a check flight, differences training between 152 and 172 etc.

We’ve got 3 152’s at my school (and 3 172’s). I’ve flown 2 of the 152’s and there are differences between them. Certain things like there’s a starter warning light on one but not the other, yet the ‘standard’ checklist still calls it out. Headset plugs in completely different places. I guess it’s just something to get used to as experience grows.
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By VRB_20kt
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1869921
Checklists are one thing, but there are a few reasons for sticking with one type.

On your test, the examiner can ask you about some of the finer in the POH of the aircraft you’re being tested on

It’s obviously important to know the various speeds

You need to have the attitude for climb, level flight, decent etc ingrained. This is especially true for steep turns.

Landing an unfamiliar aircraft isn’t too difficult once you’ve learned, but it’s a bit easier with one that you know.

Etc

Remember that in ab initio training you are essentially learning so that you can fly safely and pass the test…

For most of the rest of your flying career you’re merely learning.
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