Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By andynxn
#1850063
tr7v8 wrote: Height control & speed management were streets better, so something is sinking in.
More consistency & its becoming a bit more automatic in the cockpit so I'm not a mentally knackered wreck when I have finished.


Completely agree, mentally freeing up a little (very little). I've now started to get more automatic, did a flapless also but went for the first stage flap without thinking, obviously got told off and instructor blocked it, but he did say was good as mussle memory is taking over.

I'm 14 hours in now.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1850084
@andynxn Sounds like a great lesson and progress indeed!

My school haven't pushed exams yet, but they don't require any pre solo. Funnily enough I have just got my Air Law notes out to read in the sunshine - no need to waste holiday time :mrgreen:

One of my favourite gems from my Instructor was when I had a lesson between Xmas and NY. I thought the airfield wd be busy but it was very quiet. When I commented on it my Instructor said "Yes well they are all sat at home wasting time" :lol: !!
By Fellsteruk
#1850123
andynxn wrote:
tr7v8 wrote: Height control & speed management were streets better, so something is sinking in.
More consistency & its becoming a bit more automatic in the cockpit so I'm not a mentally knackered wreck when I have finished.


Completely agree, mentally freeing up a little (very little). I've now started to get more automatic, did a flapless also but went for the first stage flap without thinking, obviously got told off and instructor blocked it, but he did say was good as mussle memory is taking over.

I'm 14 hours in now.


I’m always the same it’s automatic for me now to get first stage in on base I have to keep saying “flapless, flapless...”
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By F70100
#1850139
Might I respectfully suggest that whilst we’re discussing flapless landings, we give some thought as to how the flapless condition would manifest itself.

In an aircraft with human powered flaps, the first you might know about the failure is when you pull on the lever on base leg. Maybe the lever comes up but the flaps don’t deploy, or the lever is blocked. Either way, it’s bound to be a surprise, and it might be wise to consider discontinuing the approach, and leaving the circuit to consider the options and implications.

The flap failure might be asymmetric deployment; i.e. if the aircraft starts to roll as you deploy the flaps, stop pulling the lever, try and retract the flaps, discontinue the approach and again consider options and implications.

In an aircraft with electrically powered flaps, all the above might still occur on base leg and consideration of discontinuing the approach is again valid. Of course, an electrical failure earlier in the flight would mean that the flapless approach would have been considered earlier.

The flapless approach in isolation is a valuable handling exercise but it also presents an opportunity to start to dealing with your reaction to unexpected failures at critical stages of flight. In my experience, new pilots think that they always have to make instant decisions in the air. I would suggest that making time to make a considered decision is rarely a bad thing.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1850246
Excellent advice, @F70100 , thank you.

Ages ago I read something like 'don't just do SOMETHING, think for a moment'.
By Fellsteruk
#1850256
It’s a very good point!

I’m pretty sure I would brick if i had asymmetric flaps and I’m guessing. The plane would roll hard :( interestingly I seem to land better with no flaps am I alone?

Out of interest how often or how likely is it to have a flap failure I guess it could be more common on Cessnas with them being electrical “more to go wrong” but how likely is it to get asymmetrical flap when deploying in flight I’m guessing something must snap or break in flight.
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By F70100
#1850266
Fellsteruk wrote:
Out of interest how often or how likely is it to have a flap failure I guess it could be more common on Cessnas with them being electrical “more to go wrong” but how likely is it to get asymmetrical flap when deploying in flight I’m guessing something must snap or break in flight.


I've never known it to happen. There, I've said it...

I guess 99.9% of flapless landings are carried out for training & testing purposes and the briefings are usually all about the techniques needed to fly them. But the point of the training is to equip the pilot with all the skills needed to handle the failure, which includes knowing the symptoms of the failure, the consequences of it (extra landing distance required, is a diversion appropriate, is fuel available to divert, etc, etc), is there a remedy (e.g. reset a popped circuit breaker).
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1850542
Well yet another lesson under my belt. 7 more take offs & landings in the logbook. Oh and more flapless landings today so we did 3 flapless landings which were interesting. Although it was beautifully sunny it was quite bumpy with significant lift & sink in places in the circuit, Also a very busy circuit at times with both of us keeping an eye out. Everyone was very considerate though & let us go first.
Flying 02 again today, so familiar feeling which good, keeping some consistency.
Better height control although massive amounts of sink & lift in the circuit which was a bit scary at times. At one point we must have dropped 50feet & the right wing dropped which focused both of us at the time. Another landing was miles too high so as we bounced I put on full power & we climbed out. Thursday with a different instructor so that will be interesting.
So now 19 lessons & 19 hours 20mins in.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1850809
Fellsteruk wrote:interestingly I seem to land better with no flaps am I alone?


No.

In fact, when people on here are struggling to learn to land, landing flapless, possibly with a little bit of power on, assuming the runway's long enough, is one of my tips. It has two benefits - 1) Reduced drag, so everything happens a little more slowly, even if you're moving a bit faster, allowing you to judge the flare better without having to react so fast, and 2) There should be less of a pitch change in the flare, so you don't have to pull back as much, again allowing more time, but also having lighter controls to fine tune into the landing attitude.

I once had flap failure in a 172 in California due to a lack of electricity after an alternator failure.
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851041
Well yet another lesson under my belt. Two logbook entries from one lesson! Although it was beautifully sunny it was quite bumpy with significant lift & sink in places in the circuit, Also a very busy circuit at times with both of us keeping an eye out. Everyone was very considerate though & let us go first.
Flying 20 today, so a little disorientating. One of the other instructors as well who had a slightly different approach which was good.
Overall control is getting better, height/speed control on climb out needs better management. Landings were definitely better although the flare needs work.
So why two entries from one Lesson? On the second circuit we were around 300ft & out of the corner of my eye I saw something approaching. With zero reaction time I realised it was a kestrel or sparrowhawk. He was in full airbrake mode but he hit the 172 at a low level. :cyclopsani: It was my side so my instructor never saw it, I felt the hit through the pedals & slightly through the yoke. I told my FI we'd just had a bird strike & he instantly took control & we did a full landing & stop. We checked the aircraft over carefully, there was a blood track on the cowl & the front spat, also some feathers on the tailplane. No other damage though. Not sure the bird of prey got off so well though :cry: So we restarted took off & did another 40 mins. So 1:10 in total
So now 20 lessons & 20 hours 30mins in.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851044
Blimey! Bit of a shock for you and more so for the bird!!

Sounds like you are doing very well.

I have missed 4 lessons being on hols (UK!).... back to flying on Monday and I can't wait :mrgreen:
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851720
Phew, a better lesson than before my hols!

I enjoyed it. As many have said, some things improved but consequently some things sort of slid out of my brain again to make room for new stuff :lol:

Several minor firsts today
- I noticed a couple of things on the walk round but knew I could easily forget to mention them when Instructor came out so I jotted them on my kneeboard along with fuel dips etc. We went over them together. All OK but really useful to find out more, and also reiterated how absolutely safety conscious he is and I aim to be.
- I saw both manhole covers this week so steered round BOTH!
- AGS not operating today but I forgot and used station name Tatenhill Radio. Doh. Should have been T. traffic. As we have a specific frequency I didn't need to bookend the call but at least I thought about it (thanks @Irv Lee :D )
- Got shown how to refuel: static line, step ladder, paperwork etc.
- After chasing a spider round the cockpit a couple of times we decided it could come for the ride :lol:

My take off was decent, checks fine, climb to 3,500' clearing turns all OK.
HASELL check, then power off stalls were good for 3 out of 4. I messed one up by recovering too soon, as the objective was to actually stall :mrgreen: . It's amazing how one can stay in the air at 40 knots sort of hovering. Felt the mush, heard the warner, waited till it got louder, nose drop, check forward, apply full power. I thought it would be hard to persuade myself to push forward when instinctivly one may want to pull the nose up but I had no hesitation doing it. Felt good.

Did a few 180° clearing turns, nicely level. I chose to turn right for practice :D

Approaching CAS warning on Nav so Instructor decided to reposition by 45° AoB, full power. All well and good except....I heard that little click again. My door came unlatched. Now this week I was doubly sure to bodycheck it before TO and I know it was secure (I was only 99% sure I'd checked last time). Assume the 45° was enough to drop the latch out. They are going to check it.

Had a complete mental block with any heading that included the number 3!! So HDG 330, 030, 300, all melded together in my small brain. So my usually good rolling out on given HDG was not so good. Harrumph.

Then the classic Instructor trick - OK do you know where the airfield is? Nope. When told we were north west at least I knew which way to go until I located a familiar landmark.
It's very inconvenient when they knock down a bliddy great power station 2 days before your lesson :lol:

I did a FREDA check while flying a turn 'to save time', although obvs waited to synch DI until S&L :mrgreen:

2 circuits of varying quality. Better than last time but not exactly good. First one as a go around, fine, second one overshot turn for Final a little due to being slow getting my ducks in a row but salvaged it and was pleased to be able to stabilise approach.

Still in remedial class with regard to landing :lol:

Looking forward to Wednesday.
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By tr7v8
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1851743
It doesn't sound like you've forgotten much. My hols is in Sept so a way to go!
I struggle to find the airfield when flying around, or even which town we are over. Yet know Kent quite well.
Good luck for Wed. My next one is 12:00 today, yet more circuits we'll see what happens.
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By editmonkey
#1851755
Sounds like a fab lesson @T6Harvard. Did the spider survive the experience?

So are you into the nav exercises yet? Ex 18 was mentioned the other week so it may be on the horizon and I haven't so much as whirred my whizzwheel yet.
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By Rob P
#1851762
T6Harvard wrote:- Got shown how to refuel: ... step ladder


Ah so you have reached the most dangerous part of (high-wing) flying? :shock:

Rob P
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