[_Matt07]

I've decided to learn to fly, it's something I've wanted to do for a while but I've not been in a position to do so - no I am. I've done quite a bit of reading, spoken to a few schools and also watched a few programmes online.

My basic question is this, as I am looking to get my PPL and CPL and then FI which will require to build up a couple of hours flying time to get there I am thinking of purchasing a plane up front and then hiring an instructor to take me through the PPL and CPL.

I have looked at the cost for the plane side, however, finding out the cost for an instructor is proving a little tricky and I'm not keen to ask a flight school directly as that will be taking business away from them so they may over state the price.

My reasoning for this is that I would probably be flying quite regularly, regularly enough to warrant the purchase of a plane.

Is this a viable way to obtain a PPL then CPL, are there instructors out there who would do this?

[Irv Lee]

To instruct you do not need a cpl to instruct at ppl level. You do need "hours" though before doing the instructor thing (and commercial ground exams)

[Morten]

I thought that there was also a requirement for tuition to be done in aircraft which were associated (operated/insured/maintained through?) by a registered training establishment (ATO and/or RTF)?
Of course, you may find a friendly school who would be able to help you with that. E.g. where I learnt the school itself did not actually own any of the aircraft - they were all on lease from the owners and only operated by the school.
In a similar structure, you could by your aircraft and then have them operate it and teach you on it.

It does presuppose a friendly/cooperative school to begin with.

Or have I got that requirement wrong?

In all cases, it does assume that you would want to buy an aircraft which is suitable for instruction and, conversely, want to continue flying said aircraft once you have your license.

In respect of the "regularly enough to warrant purchase" the number often mentioned is that the tipping point for that to happen is around the 100 hours/year. I would think that with the standard PA28/C152/C172 that could be reasonable. But it will depend on lots of factors other than the fuel cost... some careful maths is needed.

[Rob P]

From the proposal I don't think saving a few quid is a major factor in your decision?

There are enough out of work / freelance instructors around that it shouldn't be a major issue finding one.

The main drawback I can forsee is qualifying and then after a few score hours finding yourself the proud owner of a training aircraft when you'd really like something a little more rewarding to fly.

Rob P

[_Matt07]

To instruct you do not need a cpl to instruct at ppl level. You do need "hours" though before doing the instructor thing (and commercial ground exams)

I am looking at instructing up to CPL, soI would need to get the CPL at some point.

[_Matt07]

From the proposal I don't think saving a few quid is a major factor in your decision?

There are enough out of work / freelance instructors around that it shouldn't be a major issue finding one.

The main drawback I can forsee is qualifying and then after a few score hours finding yourself the proud owner of a training aircraft when you'd really like something a little more rewarding to fly.

Rob P

I have thought about that but there is a plan in place to get through the courses and then take people away. Not fussed about the speed bit, just a nice plane to pootle about in.

[Rob P]

Training aircraft and nice aircraft ('plane' is a woodworking tool ) to take people away in are not synonyms.

Rob P

[lobstaboy]

...aircraft ('plane' is a woodworking tool ) ...

Aeroplane ('aircraft' are flown by Americans )

[AndyR]

You will need a way of training being directed via a registered training organisation. Not just the aircraft but also you will need pesky things like a course completion certificate. (Yes, that’s a slightly simplified version).

Instructors fees will vary: where, what course (a PPL instructor will generally charge less than a MEP instructor for example), their experience, local demand, I’m sure you’ve got the idea

What would you plan to use when your aircraft is in for a maintenance check? Generally they’re not missing too long, but when something crops up (even the relevant engineer on social isolation!) it can be many months.

Gaining your PPL, all the way up through to your FI, will require the skills of several instructors. As you advance up the ladder, you are even more restricted on places suitable for that type of training. That is, not all schools offer the FIC, or indeed the CPL.

I would suggest you might look at finding an establishment close to you that will provide the ladder to the qualifications you are after.

Once you gain your FI rating you will of course then have to find a job, then derestrict your FI. You won’t earn very much I’m afraid. You need to love what you do.

Good luck with whatever route you decide on and keep us all informed on your progress.

[ROG]

Have you really thought this through----presumably you have been up in an aircraft.
Amazing though it seems I know someone who started his commercial course and and found people on it who"d never flown before starting the course--2 years £120k. Some didn"t last long.
First problem is finding an aircraft----not as easy as it sounds--you"ll need a qualified engineer to help or you could end up with a useless expensive toy. Budget for plane say £30k
Next--annual costs--insurance, parking--maintenance--50 hours annual--say £8k-PER ANNUM --assuming no big nasty surprises. Assume you haven"t got your own airfield
Training for PPL---budget £10K
Getting hours to qualify to do CPL-- beleive its 150--sure someone will correct me if wrong
say 100 hours-- min c £7k--assumes you have own plane.
CPL--minimum cost that I"ve heard was around £30k---up to £120k for 2 year training,
Instructor rating now around £6k ??
Most of us who fly would have loved flying as a career--many fall at the first jump--. As I understand it You need a class 1 medical to start training for a commercial license---so perfect eyesight.,hearing----heart etc.
Anyway best of luck ---I know one or two who"ve had setbacks and got there , and even one who got there and decided it wasn"t for him.
The only other thing i"d say would be to get the instructor rating and then get your commercial.
With the current economic situation there"s probably more chance of doing some instructing as opposed to flying commercially., and age is always a factor in a flying career

[_Matt07]

Hi, yeah I have given this quite some thought - I've evenly rather geekily built a spreadsheet which I've reviewed several times.

I've a couple of flights and a couple of lessons a few years ago but work and life stuff got in the way but that is now changing (for the better) and I am beginning to find myself with more time so looking back at it again. I've started speaking to a local school who have given me their prices and the requirements to progress, prices are fine are al fine - PPL £8.5k, CPL £7.3k, MEP £3.3k - upgrading from PPL to instructor would be £22k but this would also include all the flying hours between PPL and the FI course - 200hrs total, with 150 PIC - this is where the bulk of the cost would be, the course costs $6k. In total the best part of £40k (excl. MEP).
Still at early stages of working it through so will see what happens over time as I piece it all together but running up the 200hrs is the biggest hit, plus having the flexibility to fly away on short breaks is pleasant..... who knows, after all this I may just decide to go down the microlight route..... how do they handle over the Alps?

[ArrowStraight]

You may have to budget for an extra £2k to £4k for your PPL, as you may need more than minimum hours.
I think you may have also missed out the cost of your Commercial Writtens (or ATPLs which are even more expensive)
Don't forget, once you get your instructor rating you'll be restricted for some time............

[JAFO]

How can a school quote a price for the PPL? There are just too many variables.

[lobstaboy]

...who knows, after all this I may just decide to go down the microlight route..... how do they handle over the Alps?

The right one is perfectly capable of getting you to Italy. Though 'through' the Alps is probably a better way of putting it.
With microlights you'd be limited to one passenger. It's definitely the quickest and cheapest route to a usable instructor rating.