Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By phasesonix
#1762016
I am looking at ways to get my ppl and have found a Pa24 for sale that has just had its annual and arc. Is it possible for a friend of mine to teach me to fly with his ppl in an aircraft that I own? I'm not expecting to do the whole course with him but is it legal for him to teach me the basics without a FI rating? Would flight schools except the hours that I would have flown with him towards my ppl? alternatively would a FI teach me in my own plane? I'm guessing this post will get some abuse :D
User avatar
By MattL
#1762036
Hi quick answer is no your friend cannot teach you, and it wouldn’t be a good idea in many respects.

A school would need to put your aircraft on their approval but that is quite easy to do, then their FIs could teach you in it. However the aircraft will need to meet certain requirements.

I strongly recommend you approach a school with the whole plan and get agreement before you commit any funds.

Good luck
#1762037
You can get experience in your aeroplane with your friend as the pilot, but you won't be able to log anything.

You can put your aeroplane on an ATO's fleet, and then they will be able to teach you the course in it. But a PA-24? That's retractable with a VP prop isn't it? You might want to start off in something less complex, at least for the first few lessons. I have no experience so I don't know how forgiving a PA-24 is for beginners, but I believe it isn't the most forgiving of aeroplanes out there. If you have a reasonable aptitude though I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.
User avatar
By dc3guy
#1762050
Welcome to the forum!

Is the reason for learning in your own aircraft based on cost? If so, I’d suggest that using a flying school would be a much safer bet.

Unless you have extensive technical knowledge, it is easy to buy a plane that has or will very soon have costly issues. Not to mention insurance, storage (especially in unforeseen circumstances where you’ll not be able to fly!) etc. Buying a plane should be more for the love than the cost I believe!

Also, learning to fly with an approved instructor (even the initial bits) will be in line with safety requirements. Learning bad habits from an experienced but untrained pilot could mean the difference between life and death at some point.

Last point (and this is why I haven’t purchased yet and waiting until I pass my ppl) - pay a little more to train with someone else’s aircraft and you won’t sit up at night worrying what those extra bumpy landings will be costing you on your next service :lol:

Good luck with your journey!
#1762065
PA24 are lovely aircraft, but expensive to run and repair. What has made you consider one?

I’d caution against learning to fly in one for a number of reasons, but principally cost, and the risk of damaging undercarriage due to heavy and otherwise botched landings while you are learning to land it.

You can learn to fly in pretty much anything, but you are making it harder for yourself by picking a high performance machine. The major manufacturers produced training aircraft for a reason. Better to learn in someone else’s, cheaper, machine then buy what you want after you’ve got your PPL.

If you’re determined to buy an aircraft to learn to fly in, at least make sure you can get a full Class 2 medical first.
#1762122
Thanks for all the replies, lots of food for thought. What about a PA22 instead? If I pass my ppl I would like to log enough hours for the cpl. The PA24 is fairly cheap as it's a friend of the family selling it -thats the main reason. Is it possible to buy a different suitable aircraft for under 10k? Thanks again.
#1762130
The answer to your initial question is that it is possible but there are some hurdles to take.

PA24s are lovely aeroplanes (as are PA22s) and one of our forumites actually has one.

Unless you have oodles of money and time going for the 'traditional' route is the better option. By all means buy the PA24 if it is something you really fancy - but beware they can be quite a bit more costly to run than other 4 seaters. There is a whole club dedicated to Commanches so they are quite popular.
#1762165
As others have said a PA24 is a high performance touring single, complex to fly and to maintain. It is not a training aircraft but it is a great go places aircraft if you can afford to keep it going.

Learn with a school using their aircraft and then consider what to do next with some practical understanding under your belt.
JAFO liked this
By AlanC
#1762266
Comanches are lovely aircraft to fly, with experience, but aren't especially suited to the ab-initio training task for a variety of reasons. They reward good technique nicely but are unforgiving of lapses of technique, especially near the ground - having instructed and examined on single and twin Coms for the last 10 years or so, I always look forward to being in one but have to be a little more aware of potential student errors than in other types.

A cheap buy will usually be an expensive operation. Fuel bills alone on most models can be a bit scary, especially when operated in early training (on longer trips they start to make a lot more sense, leaned correctly with balanced injectors on the later models can give excellent economy, not unusual to see 155+TAS on a little over 10gph), then maintenance and general operating costs will always be noticeably more than for the average more basic aircraft. The 180hp model is rather less per hour but hardly makes the most of the rest of the airframe, 260hp is a sweet spot really.

Usual student advice applies: buying your own aircraft to save on initial training costs only ever works if you can also get the instruction free. Otherwise, let the school spread the operating costs by operating in bulk. Once licenced then start to gain experience in a variety of aircraft while finding out what you enjoy most!
#1762276
phasesonix wrote:I am looking at ways to get my ppl and have found a Pa24 for sale that has just had its annual and arc. Is it possible for a friend of mine to teach me to fly with his ppl in an aircraft that I own? I'm not expecting to do the whole course with him but is it legal for him to teach me the basics without a FI rating? Would flight schools except the hours that I would have flown with him towards my ppl? alternatively would a FI teach me in my own plane? I'm guessing this post will get some abuse :D


Hi,

out of interest, have you asked your friend with the PPL whether he thinks he could teach you, or did he offer?

Surely as a PPL holder he’d understand the remit of his license?

Also, did the idea to use a PA24 come from the current owner? If you asked them if you could buy it for training and they said “Yes”, let’s just say I’d be concerned!

Flying schools have aircraft that are perfect for training. Pop along and get a trial lesson and ask every question you can think of.

Ask the friend what he thinks of you buying the aircraft to fly once you have a license.

Ask them what their running costs are, it might (should) make your eyes water.
#1764211
I bought a Rockwell Commander while I was training. Not initially but after 39 hours of my PPL course. Then something strange happened... I started losing interest in flying around in a club PA28 and therefore sort of slowed way down on moving forward with my PPL. I found it just as much fun to hire an instructor to teach me differences training on my own aircraft and go off touring around the Alps and further afield with the FI sitting next to me. I kept renting a PA28 for PPL training but the basic lessons were getting further apart. Meanwhile, I had racked up over 100 hours in about 4 months, a large portion of which were in my own aircraft as PUT before I got around to sitting a test. My first logbook is all over the place, I had 20 overseas airfields logged pre-test and had 1st hand experience of doing things with an aeroplane most new PPL's would take years to acquire.
This was not cheap flying however. Aside from the initial outlay for the PPL course, the cost to purchase the aircraft, maintenance, parking, fuel, landing fees, insurance, refurbishment and just hiring an FI for all those hours not to mention the food and hotels, brought my pre test flying costs to just under £85,000.
With a Comanche My advice to you is don't.
Charles Hunt liked this