Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1717238
TLRippon wrote:Irv,
If LAPL is an EASA licence, why would it suffer a fate different to a PPL after no deal BREXIT?


Because it isn't ICAO compliant AFAIK, I expect Irv will confirm.
#1717244
For the LAPL or PPL decision. Ask yourself what it is you want from flying?

The vast majority of private pilots do not hold an instrument rating, fly in good VFR, are not single pilot owners with unlimited availability and resources to fly their 5 person families off to Cannes for the weekend in their Sub 5.7 tonne sub 19 seat aircraft.

The vast majority of people who fly, have a day job, have always wanted to fly but have been resource/time limited and when they did their training found a sweet spot in their lives where all the limiting factors were reduced to a place where it became possible.

The reality of GA club flying in the UK is that the vast majority of private pilots do not have the time nor resources to achieve a full IR, although more have an IR(R). Many struggle to find the time to gain the minimum hours for their rating renewal if they have a family and full time job.

I was lucky to be able to be able to own and maintain a touring aircraft for the last 12 years since the end of my PPL training, I do take my family on holiday all over Europe but I have an IR(R) and it has no validity outside the UK. Try as I might, with all that incentive, I haven’t managed to find the time to finish the TK and get on with the IR despite having started it three times now.
I also don’t have an aircraft with de-icing, it’s a non turbo so limited to the low level airways and I wouldn’t want to push the IR limits with my entire family onboard a light aircraft.

The result of this is that after 12 years, close to 1900 hours and with unlimited access to an aircraft, I am pretty much flying within the privileges of the LAPL on 99% of my flights.

In terms of actual time to passing a skill test. I wouldn’t look at it as a balance between 30 and 45 hours. You will hear a lot about those who pass in 45 hours because quite rightly they are applauded for their achievement. In the background there are the majority who don’t.
I would also say that if you are looking at 10 hours of post LAPL solo flying as a burden and something that will take a long time to complete, then perhaps the LAPL is the right licence for you as 10 hours will disappear in short time and will look like an insignificant part of your flying career if you truly want to do all the things having a PPL adds to your flying.

There is also a LAPL to PPL upgrade path if you decide later on you want those extra privileges.
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#1717245
johnm wrote:
TLRippon wrote:Irv,
If LAPL is an EASA licence, why would it suffer a fate different to a PPL after no deal BREXIT?


Because it isn't ICAO compliant AFAIK, I expect Irv will confirm.


But it is EASA compliant and we aren’t leaving EASA?
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1717246
TLRippon wrote:
johnm wrote:
TLRippon wrote:Irv,
If LAPL is an EASA licence, why would it suffer a fate different to a PPL after no deal BREXIT?


Because it isn't ICAO compliant AFAIK, I expect Irv will confirm.


But it is EASA compliant and we aren’t leaving EASA?


I'm not sure we actually know, the CAA microsite isn't clear, whole thing is such an utter shambles confusion will inevitably reign for some while after Oct31st if Bozo follows though as threatened.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1717305
johnm wrote:
TLRippon wrote:Irv,
If LAPL is an EASA licence, why would it suffer a fate different to a PPL after no deal BREXIT?


Because it isn't ICAO compliant AFAIK, I expect Irv will confirm.

That is the short version. I get people asking me all sorts of stuff all the time, some start with "which sort of..." i have to be really careful with NOT telling people what they should do as everyone is different. I just give either known facts or possibilities and then they make their own decisions. Why? Because unlike EASA's view, not everyone in or entering aviation at the hobby level can afford to spend money on someone telling them what to do and then finding out later it didn't really get them where they wanted to be. (Why did an Irish airline pop into my head?).
The longer version: It is not impossible that with a hard Brexit where we leave Easa, Easa might not recognise UK Lapls and of course only easa states do do automatically at the moment, leaving us with a uk only licence. Neither is it impossible easa may recognise some lapls and not others, having a cut off date of the date we left, just like ssea conversions. It is quite possible we will pay to stay in Easa so nothing changes except our voting.
All these issues need to be laid out for people about to spend money, many cannot afford otherwise, and there is no simple answer right now.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1717308
TLRippon wrote:The vast majority of private pilots do not hold an instrument rating, fly in good VFR, are not single pilot owners with unlimited availability and resources to fly their 5 person families off to Cannes for the weekend in their Sub 5.7 tonne sub 19 seat aircraft.

The vast majority of people who fly, have a day job, have always wanted to fly but have been resource/time limited and when they did their training found a sweet spot in their lives where all the limiting factors were reduced to a place where it became possible.

The reality of GA club flying in the UK is that the vast majority of private pilots do not have the time nor resources to achieve a full IR, although more have an IR(R). Many struggle to find the time to gain the minimum hours for their rating renewal if they have a family and full time job.

Why aren't you (weren't you) UK's EASA rep? Crowd funding could have paid you a big salary to put those thoughts in where they are needed.
#1717326
TLRippon wrote:For the LAPL or PPL decision. Ask yourself what it is you want from flying?

The vast majority of private pilots do not hold an instrument rating, fly in good VFR, are not single pilot owners with unlimited availability and resources to fly their 5 person families off to Cannes for the weekend in their Sub 5.7 tonne sub 19 seat aircraft.

The vast majority of people who fly, have a day job, have always wanted to fly but have been resource/time limited and when they did their training found a sweet spot in their lives where all the limiting factors were reduced to a place where it became possible.

The reality of GA club flying in the UK is that the vast majority of private pilots do not have the time nor resources to achieve a full IR, although more have an IR(R). Many struggle to find the time to gain the minimum hours for their rating renewal if they have a family and full time job.

I was lucky to be able to be able to own and maintain a touring aircraft for the last 12 years since the end of my PPL training, I do take my family on holiday all over Europe but I have an IR(R) and it has no validity outside the UK. Try as I might, with all that incentive, I haven’t managed to find the time to finish the TK and get on with the IR despite having started it three times now.
I also don’t have an aircraft with de-icing, it’s a non turbo so limited to the low level airways and I wouldn’t want to push the IR limits with my entire family onboard a light aircraft.

The result of this is that after 12 years, close to 1900 hours and with unlimited access to an aircraft, I am pretty much flying within the privileges of the LAPL on 99% of my flights.

In terms of actual time to passing a skill test. I wouldn’t look at it as a balance between 30 and 45 hours. You will hear a lot about those who pass in 45 hours because quite rightly they are applauded for their achievement. In the background there are the majority who don’t.
I would also say that if you are looking at 10 hours of post LAPL solo flying as a burden and something that will take a long time to complete, then perhaps the LAPL is the right licence for you as 10 hours will disappear in short time and will look like an insignificant part of your flying career if you truly want to do all the things having a PPL adds to your flying.

There is also a LAPL to PPL upgrade path if you decide later on you want those extra privileges.


This was my initial reason to go for LAPL but if i have to do extra hours anyway, i might as well go for PPL.
By Fellsteruk
#1717510
If you can get a class 2 then go PPL when all is said and done there is unlikely to be much or any difference in price to get to taking passengers.

I’m 6ft4 and currently weight just over 19st, I was closer to 21st when I started earlier this year in a PA28, sure its tight but if I can manage it you should get use to the lack of room I did.

At my school in Liverpool they have PA28 and pa38s I don’t know the exact diff in tolerance but I’ve never seen lessons in the 2 seaters cancelled and the 4 seater still fly I’d argue they are so similar unless your talking ultra light that the fella you spoke to is talking bull.

Are you open to Liverpool, have you spoken to merseyflight, Liverpool flying school or Lomac, all great schools from what I’ve heard I’ve only used one of them first hand but learning at a busy airport also adds another element to the process.
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1717518
Just to point out that the initial training is the same for both licences so you do not have to decide until you are well into the course and have a better picture of what you want.
#1717524
foxmoth wrote:Just to point out that the initial training is the same for both licences so you do not have to decide until you are well into the course and have a better picture of what you want.


But do you need to make sure that your instructor is a PPL instructor. If they are LAPL only would those early lessons be to nothing if you decide to change?
#1717530
Bathman wrote:A course is a course of you doing a PPL course you are doing a PPL course. You can't just switch to a LAPL or an NPPL
Ask the CAA. It's bollox of course and fortunately most schools are proactive.


... but if you decide to do a LAPL and the school allocates a LAPL only instructor and you subsequently decide to change to PPL?
#1717532
What I do know if a student started a PPL course was told to get a class 2 medical. Unfortunately they weren't able so got a LAPL medical instead. They then rang the CAA and they said that the hours they had flown already were as part of a PPL course and could not be counted towards a LAPL course.