Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By CapnM
#1707079
swale wrote:Thank you for the info so I’m presuming your funding this yourself bit by bit as you go... the instructor route sounds like a good option to rack up the hours (if your lucky enough to have that chance I guess?)... I thought now the CAA changed the law and made it a requirement that even a new first officer have 1500hrs minimum?


Yes - "the modular route" :thumright: Do the bits when you have the time/funds to do them.

There's no "legal" hour requirement for first officers (as far as I'm aware), it's just set by the airlines, but I think what you're referring to is your frozen ATPL being "unfrozen", which it is once you hit 1,500 hours and providing you pass the other requirements.
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By sms8
#1707080
So you can be an employed first officer with a frozen atpl?

Do airlines often take new recruits with frozen low hour ATPL?
By CapnM
#1707115
swale wrote:So you can be an employed first officer with a frozen atpl?

Do airlines often take new recruits with frozen low hour ATPL?


Yes - plenty are taking freshly minted (f)ATPL students with low hours right now, in which you'd be first officer. The past year or two has been a great time for modular students in particular getting jobs with airlines. :thumleft:
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By sms8
#1707160
Thats encouraging to hear, and I guess air travel is only becoming bigger so hopefully will stay the same for many more years to come...

Looks like I have a big task ahead, lots of studying including the GCSE's LOL.... as well as lots of £££ to sort :(
By CapnM
#1707264
swale wrote:Thats encouraging to hear, and I guess air travel is only becoming bigger so hopefully will stay the same for many more years to come...

Looks like I have a big task ahead, lots of studying including the GCSE's LOL.... as well as lots of £££ to sort :(


There's also the view that a whole load of pilots are nearing retirement age and there simply isn't enough right now to replace them, so there'll be demand for time to come yet. Some of my past instructors, for example, have recently been snapped up by airlines, one of which in particular took him on despite him being past his mid-40s, which wasn't their policy in the past, which causes the knock on effect of there also being an instructor shortage. It's well reported that two integrated schools in particular are having a hard time pushing their students through in the advertised time frame because they simply don't have the instructors available for it, and I know certainly a few local schools are in this boat too.

Lots of opportunities right now for any avenue you want to take :thumleft:
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1707536
Yes, go for the GCSEs and aim for subjects that show you have an element of teachability: I'd suggest English, Maths (both essential) then a science subject either general or specifically physics, biology, and a language (French or German).

British schools are ditching languages over the last decade: a retrograde step.

When applying for any job/course the first place in the CV the shortlisters look is the academic achievements section. If it's blank and they have two hundred CVs on their desk to wade through , the first stage of shortlisting is dead simple......

Good luck: make a long term plan and stick to it.

Peter
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By Miscellaneous
#1707537
PeteSpencer wrote:When applying for any job/course the first place in the CV the shortlisters look is the academic achievements section. If it's blank and they have two hundred CVs on their desk to wade through , the first stage of shortlisting is dead simple......

I'd disagree with that as a general rule. I doubt very much many employers recruiting 30+ employees look at, or even consider GCSEs.

Academic achievements relating to the job yes, other than that I doubt it.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1707551
Miscellaneous wrote:
PeteSpencer wrote:When applying for any job/course the first place in the CV the shortlisters look is the academic achievements section. If it's blank and they have two hundred CVs on their desk to wade through , the first stage of shortlisting is dead simple......

I'd disagree with that as a general rule. I doubt very much many employers recruiting 30+ employees look at, or even consider GCSEs.

Academic achievements relating to the job yes, other than that I doubt it.


I was referring, not specifically to the lack of GCSEs in the academic achievements section, but to a gaping blank space.

From what the OP says as he hasn't done any GCSEs or A levels, then it's reasonable to assume he has no other relevant (to demonstrate his teachability) qualifications to put in that blank space.

A blank space (in my experience) in a CV is a big turn-off in the selection process.

My thesis is that shoving a few relevant (not Mickey Mouse) GCSE into that blank space might , to the selection panel, go some way towards mitigating the apparent lack of education/drive/enthusiasm/aspiration.

Peter
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1707576
^^^^^^^^^^ given that the OP can do them for free, I see a certain benefit in collecting a few GCSE's, if only to demonstrate a rounded personality.

Passing a string of exams to get an ATPL, of itself, demonstrates "teachability" (an ability to learn, rather than simply memorise large lumps of arcane subject-theory. :wink: )
Unless you have exceptional abilities, I think you'd spend 2 years to amass the necessary passes at "O" level . I agree that school qualifications are likely to carry little weight where a mature job-applicant is concerned. Working -life is of much more relevance, but there again, the HR minions have boxes to tick.....have you considered writing to the head of recruitment (or possibly the Chief Pilot) of half a dozen airlines on your short-list, soliciting their views on what qualifications they would like to see in a candidate who has spent a few years in "the university of life" (it counts for a lot, in my book.

First get your Class1 medical- the whole outcome of your efforts depends on this.
Then, as suggested, look to GCSE Maths and English (you only have to look at many posts on this Forum to realise that many Pilots can't string a coherent sentence together consistently. :twisted: and don't get me started on Grammar, punctuation and the hideous unintentional Malapropisms caused by total mis-spelling of a word which sounds the same! Level 6 is, I believe, the standard required, which the OP posts indicate is easily achievable. -Maybe sit another language?Cantonese? Russian? Polish? Physics will undoubtedly be a big help to you as well.
Given that Airline Transport is international, the ability to speak a "less popular" language should be a real asset....if you've a linguistic flair, by all means do French, German, Spanish or Italian, as they are all pretty common, but still useful As @Flying Dutch will confirm, most of them seem to speak better English than the average Brit. Even the supermarket checkout operator transitioned seamlessly to perfect English when they realised I was a Furriner :oops:

Look at back-posts in the student forum....much advice, from buying secondhand course-books. (Airlaw, even the latest edition, is usually outdated before it's printed, but the exams are, also! "old" or" new" correct answer to a question gets a pass! you can show how good you are by giving both and annotating the fact you know that the law changed :)
You may want to save and get a share in a LAA Permit aircraft -or even buy outright....You can learn on it,certainly to PPL level and save a considerable amount. If you intend to do GCSE's and a Commercial licence, I'd guess you should aim for about 5 years (unless you win the Lottery and go full-time)

Get your medical, then set your stall out to achieve your goal. do not rush in with unbridled enthusiasm and then realise "I could have done it that way, a lot quicker and easier"
Good luck, go for it!

Note, I have no qualifications whatsoever, so the above could be worth what you paid for it. (in that case, the post will get "donked" :P
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By Miscellaneous
#1707631
PeteSpencer wrote:My thesis is that shoving a few relevant (not Mickey Mouse) GCSE into that blank space might , to the selection panel, go some way towards mitigating the apparent lack of education/drive/enthusiasm/aspiration.

It may just be me Peter, however I certainly wouldn't consider a 30 something with a new ATPL as being lacking in drive, enthusiasm or aspiration. Even if they could show 5 GCSEs gained as a 16yr old they would have zero significance to someone with a fresh ATPL under their belt. :D
By sms8
#1707702
Very interesting and thanks for the reply’s everyone.

So my thoughts and current plan of action to date is to yes get my class 1 medical asap just to confirm it’s all possible, I don't foresee an issue I have good eye sight (had laser surgery at 21 for a fairly mild correction and have no night vision issues because of it).

Other than being a bit overweight which I'm correcting I keep relatively active and do plenty of walking and eat reasonably well so generally feel I’m a relatively fit and healthy individual....but obviously they'll be the judge of that.

Although having thought and thought and trying to foresee every pitfull one potential snag I now recall and would love some advise on and which may also be worth posting another thread for is that approx 6 years ago I had a period where I was on anti depressants ultimately this was down to an unhappy marriage and general discontent, I have since corrected that issue and have been off them for over 4/5 years I just wonder if this will be an issue and how I should approach this as I’m sure they will want to know of previous conditions and want to see my medical history?

I have reached out to a local university explaining my situation although the difficulty with this route could be fitting it all into life, I have been considering and researching hiring a tutor to do some one on one and go that road as it would be easier to fit into my life as it stands but obviously theres a more significant cost involved which ultimately could go towards flight training later if I should succeed with my GCSE's, as I would prefer to go the integrated intensive route if financially I can... so lots of saving needed....it do seem to be getting conflicting information on the costs so if it really is in excess of £100,000 then that's gonna be an issue :roll:

I’ve been thinking of going for the following GCSE’s obviously the core ones Maths, English and Science then I felt Physics and something like IT as that would be a stronger point for me, I do however have interest in engineering and design technology.

Maths and mental arithmetic are my most weak points I always hated it when I was younger and struggled to grasp it and especially since we now all walk around with a calculator in our pockets it hasn't improved...and neither has my life ever required me to use algebra or any other forms of more advanced math so I'm gonna need to work hard here.... but on the plus now I’m many times more determined and a lot more mature, so I’m gonna need to start liking it and getting good at it if I want to a career in aviation :lol:

A language makes great sense to me but this was always an area I have little enthusiasm for or was good at, but with that said if it was deemed a huge advantage it would need to be considered.

I feel I need to get my GCSE’s done and re tune myself as I guess the studying required gaining my ATPL will require me to be pretty sharp educationally and be more complex than my GCSE exams.... at the minute most of what I know comes from general knowledge and my interests with a particular interest in aviation, flight and technology which I’ve literally had since being a child .... I remember spending hours on MS Flight Sim 95 as a child subsequently spent many hours on the succeeding versions :lol: so hopefully I will have a good foundation and a basic grasp of flight.

I have a massive desire to fulfil this dream and regret not doing this earlier when the opportunities where somewhat easier and less complicated as a child....but maybe its only now that I will have the discipline and maturity to accomplish such a goal.

I’m certain this will be a mammoth task and there looks to be many hurdles to cross and then the grand hurdle of getting the £££ to pay for it... guess if I think too hard I’ll put myself off sometimes I guess you gotta just get stuck in and start at step one!

Im sure this can be done I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been in this position or harder and succeded and it seems that after a bit of research the excuse of I'm a little too old to start all this is slightly untrue.... good thing is I'm not 50 yet so nobody can accuse me of having a mid life crises :lol:
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1707848
If you have an existing career, why not start by getting your PPL to fly for fun? After that, you can then go on to further and higher things at your own pace. While you're flying for fun (or hour building as some call it! ;-) ) you can then take on the academic study at whatever pace you feel comfortable with. In the meantime, you're scratching the itch to be in the air.
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By sms8
#1707919
Paul_Sengupta wrote:If you have an existing career, why not start by getting your PPL to fly for fun? After that, you can then go on to further and higher things at your own pace. While you're flying for fun (or hour building as some call it! ;-) ) you can then take on the academic study at whatever pace you feel comfortable with. In the meantime, you're scratching the itch to be in the air.


Hi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but the ultimate itch for is to get straight to the commercial sector and create a carrer, that's where my dream has always been .... I'm very lucky to have a supportive family who are onboard and willing to help me to achieve this, the integrated route is a strong possibility right now for me despite the high costs as I really want to waste no more life time than I have already.....so for the minute I want to save as many pennies as possible and put all my heart and soul into getting step one done and getting my 5 GCSE's with as little distractions as possible.... then I guess I'll be digging deeper into the training as that becomes the next step of the journey.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1707923
I wish you the very best of luck.
Please post regularly your progress both ups and downs

I’ve been on here a very long time and have been delighted to follow and occasionally play a part in the progress of many current forumites in some cases from teenage schoolboy or totally non aviation occupation to dizzy heights of ATPL or ATC

Peter