[SimFlyer]

I'm not really familiar with the terms so that may be a source of confusion. What is the correct term or wording for what I want? I'm not looking for a sightseeing tour, I'm not looking to go up to "see if flying is for me," I'm doing this to get a feel of their school/instructor/aircraft/etc. How would I best communicate that?

Maybe if all their instructors are too busy, that tells you something about the availability you will encounter when you are training.

What do you mean?

As for your flight school, can you tell me how many students you'd consider max?

[FlightDek]

Tell her you want a "Trial Lesson Flight" not an "Air Experience Flight" and that it must be with a PPL instructor as you want the time to count towards you licence.

Dek

[Bathman]

Personally I think there some really good one man band schools about.

Certainly some excellent independent IMC instructor's kicking about also.

[cockney steve]

If you contact "that" school again, advise the person that there was a misunderstanding/ miscommunication on your previous enquiry, along the lines,

" I don't want a pleasure flight, I want an initial PPL trial- flight.
If you really can't accommodate another student , at the present, I'm OK with that."

If the school really does have vacancies, there should be profuse apologies for not having correctly ascertained your needs. I would have had sharp words with any of my staff who turned away a potential turnover well over £ 6 thousand. If all i've read is true, there is, indeed a shortage of instructors at present, as there is a shortage of airline- pilots, so everyone's moved up the ladder a step or two.
(it's also commonly held that many pilots hour-build by instructing, to qualify for a commercial licence.)

Weather is likely to cost you more missed lessons than aircraft or instructor unavailability.

[KeithM]

Cannot offer any further flight school advice but I do have another tip for you!

If you're resolved to begin flying training, don't forget about those exams that you will be required to pass to gain your PPL.

So, start now, if you can!

In my opinion the earlier you begin your studies (even now!) the better, and with the possible exception of Aviation Law (yawn!) you might even enjoy the studies. I did.

Exams are mostly multi-choice and none are very difficult, especially if you prepare thoroughly and reasonably well in advance. Do that, and you will probably breeze through and it will also reduce any anxieties and allow you to concentrate on the flying and avoid any temporary hold ups in your flight training for want of an exam pass (e.g. Aviation Law required for first solo and Navigation for solo cross-country).

I have heard of, and come across, more than a few students who have put off the studies then, in a semi-panic, try to cram it all in within a short period. Not the best way to do things, in my view as it can lead to unnecessary frustration and stress.

I bought the materials well in advance of beginning training, read each book at least twice, testing myself on the enclosed questions as I went and with the use of a separate PPL question book. Come exam time, I was totally confident and relaxed, completing most exams within 20 minutes (well within the time allowed) with scores well above those required including two maximums and I'm no genius!

Ground school, if available, might be useful as an additional aid but no substitute for self study and it is highly unlikely to be free of charge!

So, to repeat, while checking out those flight schools, start getting your head into those books. You might find second hand ones for sale, if on a tight budget, which, if not current publications, will still be largely useful.

And as someone else remarked somewhere, don't buy one of those traditional, circular, glass-faced 50 quid plus stopwatches. They ain't necessary. I bought a much cheaper digital one (on my instructor's advice!) from Argos which I velcro to my knee pad! And for general GA flying, a standard wristwatch makes for a generally adequate backup!

Good luck with your search!

[KeithM]

After all that, just noticed that there's a thread on the subject of exams, so will defer to that!

[SimFlyer]

Awesome input guys! Much appreciated!

I am 99% sure I used the term "trial flight" so I'm not sure a "trial LESSON flight" would be much different. I don't quite remember if we talked about the time counting towards my license but at this point, does it really matter? Say I accumulate 5 hours of flying by doing these trial flights; I doubt I'll be ready after 40 hours of instruction that I'd miss out by not counting these 5 hours? Even if I were ready, I'd probably be too busy feeling **** hot about myself to bother! Ha!

I've already missed out on about 2 hours' worth of flying when I did my trial flights before; I just wrote it down on a notebook which has now gone missing so only my glider flights are on record.

@cockney steve:
Thanks for that direct advice. I'll have another word again, maybe better when I actually visit the school so that things can be cleared up much easier.

I do not mind weather being a factor for missed lessons; there's nothing anyone can do about our wonderful weather. The only reason I'm worried about instructor/aircraft availability (whether on one-man outfits or bigger schools) is because I've read about these issues in the horror stories of other schools.

@KeithM:
Solid advice, thanks! I am making my way through Air Law now and it is a very effective cure for insomnia! I do hope the other topics are a bit more interesting.

I've not even thought of a stopwatch. What do you normally use it for? I thought you'd need a watch to note takeoff and landing times but never thought of a stopwatch unless doing nav exercises maybe? I did get a kneeboard and some books when I attended the Pilot Careers event and I don't remember if they were selling stopwatches.

[johnm]

@SimFlyer Flying is a systematic and procedural activity. So the first thing to do is relax. The second is to understand what a lesson involves, a trial lesson will short cut some of this to focus on flying.

A briefing on what the lesson will entail
Some flight planning with chart and whizz wheel (circular slide rule) using weather data and notices to airmen
Checking the plane against a checklist
Boarding with the instructor starting the aircraft from checklist and then flying the plan
Shutdown the aircraft after landing and leave it tidy
Debrief and writing up your log and the aeroplanes log.

Once you start learning in earnest this should be the routine for every lesson that isn't postponed due weather.

[Paul_Sengupta]

I am making my way through Air Law now and it is a very effective cure for insomnia! I do hope the other topics are a bit more interesting.

They can't be any worse...

I've not even thought of a stopwatch. What do you normally use it for?

Timing is used when it comes to navigation, but it doesn't have to be stopwatch precise. If and when you do any instrument flying, timing then becomes a bit more critical for things like the legs on a hold. But don't worry about that for now.

[Bathman]

Were I started to fly there was two schools. One was three pounds per hour cheaper than the other and was far far busier.

Not unsurprisingly I did my PPL at the cheaper school. I thought it was brilliant and after 66 hours and 8 different instructors as a 17 year old I had a PPL. I then went off to the states to do my hour building and followed it up by qualifying as a Flying Instructor.

On that course the wheel fell off.I really struggled. I simply hadn’t been taught how to fly properly. I couldn’t do a balanced turn or even trim the aircraft. As for pre flight briefs well I had never heard of one let alone been given one as a PPL student.

As I had done my hour building in the states the cheaper school wouldn’t give me a job. But the more expensive one did. It was a revelation. Pre flight briefs were mandatory and there was a proper structure to the PPL training.

Looking back at my logbook I did circuits on my 3rd lesson and navigation was scattered here there and everywhere. I got lost on a dual nav because I had calculated my heading incorrectly. Not once did an instructor ever check one of my plogs pre flight. In fact preflight consisted of I check the aircraft out start her up and the instructor will then jump in.

Looking back that first school would in this day and age be regarded as an ATO where as the school that I went onto work at was a registered facility. Yet there is no doubt in my mind which was the by far the better school.

It took quite a while and a lot of effort to get to the required standard and I lost count of the number of times I got dragged into the CFI’s office for a chat. Simply because I had done something the way I was originally taught to do it not how it should be taught.

In retrospect that 3 pounds an hour saving was one of the worst mistakes I have every made in aviation .

[AndyR]

Well said

[SimFlyer]

Thanks for that insight! In my situation, the bigger school is cheaper and has more aircraft but I can't seem to find it in the list of ATOs and RTFs/DTOs. I just also stumbled upon some pretty damning reviews on Trip Advisor under a different name, but under the "correct" name, 100% rating on only a handful of reviews. The smaller school is more expensive, has less aircraft (but a 180 as opposed to the other one's 160 so I guess more expensive due to fuel?), but has a couple dozen reviews and still a 100% rating.

I'm starting to feel like something's off with the bigger school now, but really no idea of how to confirm it and whether I'm right or not.

[KeithM]

SimFlyer,

I think you will have realised by now that there is no magic answer to your question!

A school can look great but provide poor service and instruction. A poor looking school, however, might have some great instructors to offset poor administration or minimal facilities. Of course, the only way to find out for sure is to try one out for a while because even the trial lesson might not give you a full picture.

This is another VERY good reason for not concentrating too much on cost and for NOT paying up front for seemingly attractive package deals. Paying as you go gives you maximum personal control and flexibility.

Unfortunately, travel distance is a very limiting factor in terms of choice and airfields closing is as big an issue, if not bigger, than flight schools closing!

Travelling back and forth over an excessive distance could quickly dampen your enthusiasm, not to mention eating into your budget! So, you need to balance a number of factors.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the quality of instruction is the number one factor. I have flown with a number of instructors over the years and all have been good to excellent. Most enjoy teaching and want you succeed whether "hour builders" en route to the airlines or full timers (or old full or part timers!). So, whilst having the one good instructor throughout might be ideal, I would not get too hung up on that issue either because the syllabus is set down and you will have your logbook to record your progress irrespective of the records that the school and/or instructor might keep.

I do totally agree that a good lesson should consist of pre-flight brief and de-brief so it is probably a good question to ask in order to inform your decision making. A one hour lesson, therefore, should probably amount to two hours. Anything less might raise questions about instructor pay and employment arrangements! So, expect to pay a minimum of £160 per hour for lessons in a Cessna 152 (e.g. £100 for the one hour use of the aircraft plus £60 for the two hours instruction). This may, or may not, include a landing fee, so it would be worth asking about that. Also whilst most organisations use a "Hobbs meter" (essentially engine start/stop time) for invoicing, I have come across other methods, so check that out, too. With "Hobbs", long taxying times or other delays can seriously eat into your "air" time for a given "hourly" rate so flying at busy commercial airfields can work out quite expensive in the long term.

Finally, margins are very narrow in the aviation business and there's an old saying that the "old hands" on here will know well and it goes; "If you want to make a small fortune in the aviation business, start with a large one!".

[KeithM]

If you are prepared to travel and maybe do an intensive course/semi-intensive consider Beverley

£134 an hour dual, no landing fees, all books can be borrowed etc

It is the cheapest in yorkshire and of a very high quality!

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Blimey!

Are they a registered charity?

[SimFlyer]

Hi KeithM! I do know there is no ONE way to answer the question and that's why the whole purpose of the thread! As mentioned earlier, I can only judge what I see and have been taken in by the shiny pictures or the masterful spiel only to find out that things aren't as they seem and I find out through other means, primarily through the internet on review sites and forums.

After visiting the nearby schools, I will have to start out with the cheaper schools just to rule them out unless a school really jumps out at me as being a good school. However, with the three or four local options I have, none really seem to have an established history so I'm not holding out on that one.

Durham Tees has been "closing down" for ages now but it's still open and there seems to be some struggles going on between the owners and the local government, so it's not 100% secure but seems to have held out all this time. Fingers crossed!

As a PC builder, I fully appreciate paying a bit more and getting good value for money over the bottom-line-cheapest option, so I don't mind paying more but like I said, I'll have to justify to myself the extra cost. Hopefully, doing the trial flights will help me decide one way or another and some factor will show me why I should pay extra.

As for the instructor issue, I don't mind having a few instructors as I fully appreciate how different teaching styles (and flying styles) can make me a better pilot as opposed to just seeing how it's done one way and one way only. I do worry about covering the same material twice but then that should be avoided if the instructor is good enough, right?

I've heard of Hobbs meter before but I thought that was a US thing? In the websites of the schools I've looked at, they mention takeoff time to landing time plus 10 minutes for taxi. I assume that is NOT Hobbs meter?