Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Quanta Mechanic
#1645877
I'm not a pilot, or have even begun my PPL.

I ultimately want to get into aerobatics so I have been doing some digging around.

I assumed you need a PPL before even starting an aerobatics course, but talking to one of the
aerobatic training providers, I was told that I can enroll on a course without a PPL, and the hours
doing the aerobatics course would simply go towards my PPL.

That being said, I read somewhere that there are only 3 centers that do aerobatic training in the UK,
neither of them are any where near my location.

Is this the case? or are there any places nearer to Cheshire?

Any other advice about hows best to go about aerobatics is welcome :)

Thanks.
User avatar
By nickwilcock
#1645901
I am surprised that you've been advised that aerobatic training will count towards the PPL - it won't.

Just as you can no longer train for a Night Rating during a PPL course.

ALL instructional flying on a LAPL or PPL course must be in accordance with the DTO's validated LAPL or PPL Training Programme - EASA made that quite a clear a year or so ago when we were trying to retain Night Rating training as part of the PPL course.

The AOPA /BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate syllabus is the only current validated Training Programme for the Aerobatic Rating and requires, inter alia, that
An applicant may commence the course at any time after qualifying for a pilot’s licence entitling the pilot to fly as PIC on the class of aeroplane used for the course.
Which means that to take aerobatic training on aircraft such as the Extra 300, you must hold a minimum of a LAPL.

However, although you may start training for the Aerobatic Rating as soon as you hold a valid pilot's licence with SEP privileges, you cannot apply for the Rating until you have gained 40 hrs PIC since licence issue. Which means that, even if you finish the course and apply for the AOPA / BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate, you may not fly aerobatic as PIC on EASA aerobatic aircraft until you've gained the 40 hrs PIC.... So you would only be able to fly aeros on EASA aircraft with a qualified aerobatic instructor.

However, if you can find someone willing to rent you a non-EASA aerobatic aircraft, such as a Bulldog, Chipmunk or Jungmann, you merely need to hold a valid pilot licence as there is no mandatory aerobatic training required for non-EASA aircraft - although I would strongly recommend that you didn't try 'teach your self aeros'.
By MarkJPK
#1645986
Quanta Mechanic wrote:
MarkJPK wrote:If Blackpool is not too far for you give High-G a call.

http://high-g.co.uk/


What plane do they use ?



Bulldog, Chipmunk, Yak and possibly others - best to call them and have a chat.

Here's PlaneOldBen having a lesson with them.

User avatar
By Sir Morley Steven
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1646103
nickwilcock wrote:I am surprised that you've been advised that aerobatic training will count towards the PPL - it won't.

Just as you can no longer train for a Night Rating during a PPL course.

ALL instructional flying on a LAPL or PPL course must be in accordance with the DTO's validated LAPL or PPL Training Programme - EASA made that quite a clear a year or so ago when we were trying to retain Night Rating training as part of the PPL course.

The AOPA /BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate syllabus is the only current validated Training Programme for the Aerobatic Rating and requires, inter alia, that
An applicant may commence the course at any time after qualifying for a pilot’s licence entitling the pilot to fly as PIC on the class of aeroplane used for the course.
Which means that to take aerobatic training on aircraft such as the Extra 300, you must hold a minimum of a LAPL.

However, although you may start training for the Aerobatic Rating as soon as you hold a valid pilot's licence with SEP privileges, you cannot apply for the Rating until you have gained 40 hrs PIC since licence issue. Which means that, even if you finish the course and apply for the AOPA / BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate, you may not fly aerobatic as PIC on EASA aerobatic aircraft until you've gained the 40 hrs PIC.... So you would only be able to fly aeros on EASA aircraft with a qualified aerobatic instructor.

However, if you can find someone willing to rent you a non-EASA aerobatic aircraft, such as a Bulldog, Chipmunk or Jungmann, you merely need to hold a valid pilot licence as there is no mandatory aerobatic training required for non-EASA aircraft - although I would strongly recommend that you didn't try 'teach your self aeros'.

Partly why I asked my question. Probably a misunderstanding as it would also be fairly challenging to learn aerobatics before effects of controls.
User avatar
By GolfHotel
#1646129
I knew there would be one, just didn’t expect it to be you Paul. :D :shock: :lol:

Still a daft idea. IMHO.

No doubt there will be a few more along to say what a brilliant idea it is. You pay your money you take your choice.
By Quanta Mechanic
#1646547
nickwilcock wrote:I am surprised that you've been advised that aerobatic training will count towards the PPL - it won't.

Just as you can no longer train for a Night Rating during a PPL course.

ALL instructional flying on a LAPL or PPL course must be in accordance with the DTO's validated LAPL or PPL Training Programme - EASA made that quite a clear a year or so ago when we were trying to retain Night Rating training as part of the PPL course.

The AOPA /BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate syllabus is the only current validated Training Programme for the Aerobatic Rating and requires, inter alia, that
An applicant may commence the course at any time after qualifying for a pilot’s licence entitling the pilot to fly as PIC on the class of aeroplane used for the course.
Which means that to take aerobatic training on aircraft such as the Extra 300, you must hold a minimum of a LAPL.

However, although you may start training for the Aerobatic Rating as soon as you hold a valid pilot's licence with SEP privileges, you cannot apply for the Rating until you have gained 40 hrs PIC since licence issue. Which means that, even if you finish the course and apply for the AOPA / BAeA Basic Aerobatic Certificate, you may not fly aerobatic as PIC on EASA aerobatic aircraft until you've gained the 40 hrs PIC.... So you would only be able to fly aeros on EASA aircraft with a qualified aerobatic instructor.

However, if you can find someone willing to rent you a non-EASA aerobatic aircraft, such as a Bulldog, Chipmunk or Jungmann, you merely need to hold a valid pilot licence as there is no mandatory aerobatic training required for non-EASA aircraft - although I would strongly recommend that you didn't try 'teach your self aeros'.


Thanks for this.

My aim is to ultimately fly the fastest aircraft possible!

In terms of what you were saying about the aerobatic training not going towards the PPL,
does the hours flight time not get taken into consideration?
User avatar
By GolfHotel
#1646567
Sep is Single Engine Piston. If you have that privilege you can fly a single engine piston aircraft as Pilot In Comand PIC.

Rather than spend time learning to fly straight and level on an aerobatic course why not do that on a training course for your PPL or LAPL? If you can’t do straight and level your Aeros will be “interesting”

You will soon learn that in the air there is little sense of speed. There is a speed limit of 250KIAS when VFR below FL100. My RV has a VNE of 200Kt. I have no inclination to push the difference. I believe it will do 300Kt in a shallow dive, I have no wish to go there, that’s how folks DIE.