Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Akak
#1645863
Hi all, I’m close to my skills test and haven’t yet had to request a matz transit/penetration (except on my RT training some time ago).

I have been given a route for my mock which involves flying to Wallingford which is in the benson matz from blackbushe and then turning and routing to Thruxton.

My questions are:

Do I speak with Farn Radar to request a matz transit (or is it penetration?) or do I call up Benson?

I presume the call is simply request matz transit/penetration and then stating from and to, present location, altitude etc as I would normally advise?

I expect to be diverted over Odiham (how do I pronounce that?) and believe I can request that from farn but only as I have read that online.

Am I missing something on my char that advises who to call Re a matz?

Thanks in advance!
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By Wicksay
#1645874
As I lived near the town the pronunciation is O-dee-um like podium.

Yippee my first flying question answered...

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1645886
Akak wrote:Do I speak with Farn Radar to request a matz transit (or is it penetration?) or do I call up Benson?


Benson.

Akak wrote:I presume the call is simply request matz transit/penetration and then stating from and to, present location, altitude etc as I would normally advise?


Yes. Well, with the request at the end.

Akak wrote:Am I missing something on my chart that advises who to call Re a matz?


It should be on the chart somewhere in the middle of the MATZ.

See here:

https://nats.aero/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Southern-England_Ed40_v2_Standard.jpg

In the Odiham MATZ it says "MATZ 131.300". You can see the Benson one on that map as well.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1645889
Paras 10.73 to 10.78 in cap413 (www.caa.co.uk/cap413) specifically written for it.
re 131.3 for Odiham... Has anyone tried that recently? Do they still say 'freecall Farnbrorough 125.250' or do they actually deal with it themselves? Nothing worse for student confusion than doing what you are told (calling the 131.3 mentioned of the chart) and then finding it wasn't the right thing.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1645896
The simplest way is to talk to Benson then Farnboro and be prepared to be re-directed to Odiham just in case. It's another example of the incoherent mess that is UK ATM
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By Flying badger
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1645961
Coincidentally my first passenger flight after getting my PPl was to fly my wife over her old boarding school, next to Wallingford.
It might be cheating if you tried it, but I phoned Benson the day before and asked if I could circle a few times. Easy to spot, follow the Thames. Good luck.
By Akak
#1646065
Thanks for all the replies but i am still somewhat confused!

I see on the chart is states EGUB Matz VDF 120.9 and EGVO 131.3 but is there also a way of determining what the station is called, for example Benson Approach/Radar/Something else- I cant see any details on military aerodromes on the nats-uk website.

Also, google seems to imply Farnborough W can assist for the Odiham penetration but i have no way of knowing that from the chart? So i guess the sensible thing to do is advise Farn i would be switching to Benson or Odiham to ask for matz penetration and i guess they would then advise if they could handle - just wondering if there is another way i should / could know at flight planning stage.

Would they also give me a basic service? I guess i would just tell Farn i would be going off frequency for a few mins whilst dealing with the matz pen. and then go back onto Farn.

Sorry, perhaps i am over complicating things here so any further guidance would be appreciated!
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1646087
In my experience - flying around that area a lot, Farnborough can normally give you MATZ transits. I should ask them first.

If they can't they should tell you who to call - although it probably will be "squawk 7000, freecall" which means that they are cancelling their own service to you.

So, basically start with Farnborough, and they will tell you if that is the wrong thing to do.

G
By Balliol
#1646089
Benson Zone on 120.900 will sort you out. Don’t stress about whether you use zone radar or whatever they will respond. Remember if it’s a weekend Zone isnt operational, but the airfield can be very busy with helimed police and multiple Tutors all operating. Have a good look at the embedded Chiltern Park dimensions as well - a lot of people miss that and the para dropping zone. Good luck with your test!
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By Sir Morley Steven
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1646107
Cast your mind back to your air law theory. Where in the ISIP wpild you look for this? En route? Bingo!

ENR 2.2 tells you all about Benson even what you call them!
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By BehyBill
#1646275
Some hints:
- You don't need a permission to enter a MATZ as long as you stay out of ATZ (assuming you are flying a C172 and not flying an F16)
- It is a a very very good airmanship to call for "MATZ entry" anyway, especially if you plan to transit ATZ ("overfly" is a word to avoid confusion)
- You don't have to talk to FRAN or to speak to anyone outside controlled airspace
- It is a a very very good airmanship to call for FARN anyway, especially if you plan to bust some airspace or notam, they may save your day :thumleft:
- LARS controllers have a "good sense of the situation" for both uncontrolled airspace and controlled airspace, as they also get feedback from other guys during the day

Order-wise,
- As you are outside controlled airspace you are "owned by" FARN
- Ask FARN if they can get you MATZ, TMZ, MTZ, ATZ, XYZ first (or even coffee if they can :lol: ) if not they will let you know who to call, if not ask to drop out of the frequency (no longer "owned by them")
- Then ask the zone controller if they can let you in

This also work when bouncing between Ramp, Ground, Tower, Radar...you only have to speak to the guy who own you if he can hand you to the next guy while sorting out your permissions, most of the time it works seamlessly even for daylight VFR otherwise you are no longer friends, most of the time as a pilot "you get dumped" :twisted:

Final advice, take it easy, it does not matter how you do it as long as you get someone to cleared you in you are on target for pass (advice from someone who got a zone entry clearance from Tower instead of Approach on his skill-test :D ), good luck with the skill-test !
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By Harry Brown
#1649412
My understanding is that Farnborough can only give MATZ penetration for Odiham, but phone them and ask them!

Best to read Military Aerodrome traffic Zones (MAtZ) and Penetration Services 10.73 in CAP 413 and the AIP as already suggested

Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Akak wrote:Do I speak with Farn Radar to request a matz transit (or is it penetration?) or do I call up Benson?


Its PENETRATION for a MATZ- Transit for CA

Akak wrote:I presume the call is simply request matz transit/penetration and then stating from and to, present location, altitude etc as I would normally advise?


Paul_Sengupta wrote:Yes. Well, with the request at the end.


Not sot, but it was many years ago, virtually all CAP 413 calls now start with the request contained in the first call-although many pilots, even if they are upto date with CAP413, insist in putting it in again at the end of the second call which is a waste of air time.

CAP 413 example is:

Westbury Approach, G-ABCD, request MATZ and ATZ penetration

For planning purposes remeber

Pilots requiring a MATZ, and where appropriate, ATZ penetration
service must establish two way RTF communication on the appropriate
frequency with the aerodrome controlling the zone when 15 NM or
5 min
flying time from the boundary whichever is the sooner, and
request approval to penetrate the MATZ, and if appropriate ATZ.