[the.flying.slug]

I was on a local solo nav and was trying to avoid a certain no-fly zone whilst orientating myself in less than perfect weather (all I was used to until now).

When I checked my instruments, I noticed I was at 2,550 ft, so had infringed the London TMA by about 50ft. I immediately rectified this. I had allowed the aircraft to climb for a couple of hundred feet while I checked the map - a lesson well and truly learned.

I checked on flight radar 24 and my transponder says I didn't climb beyond 2,375ft so now I am unsure.

Do I need to do anything or should I expect a letter...? Or, is this most likely not a big deal? Bit worried.

Thanks,

[Flyin'Dutch']

Write down and sit tight.

If someone gets in touch you will then have a contemporaneous record.

[the.flying.slug]

Thanks. I already scrubbed through the flight path on the website and recorded it with my phone. It shows me at no higher than 2,375ft.

[PaulB]

Thanks. I already scrubbed through the flight path on the website and recorded it with my phone. It shows me at no higher than 2,375ft.

Isn’t FR24 based on QNH 1013, so it’ll depend what the QNH was when you did it.

[the.flying.slug]

Thanks for your reply - I found this link:

https://forum.flightradar24.com/threads ... sed-on-QNH

"FR24 just shows raw transponder data"

[PaulB]

So if you have the QNH on the day then you can work out the alt from the FR24 data.

[the.flying.slug]

Thanks, it was 1021hPa which I guess puts me at 2,615ft supposedly. I definitely didn't go higher than 2,550ft.

Anyone experienced anything similar to this? Pretty worried about it to be honest.

[the.flying.slug]

Or at 2,591ft if it's 27ft per hPa not 30 ft hPa... which I guess it is at low level.

[Morten]

Surprised at that attitude, FD...?

I would think that if they have you on record as infringing, they will contact you regardless what you do. If they don't they won't even if you speak to them. So if you contact them you cannot make it worse, but you can show good airmanship and that you are taking responsibility.
I would give them a ring and say "I flew G-ABCD at 1200z today and wonder whether I may inadvertently popped into the TMA above Littlefield airfield. Did you record this/did I indeed infringe?" and take it from there.
They are also human and don't want the paperwork. Even if you did infringe (in a minor way by the sounds of it) and they recorded it, with a phonecall which shows that you understand, care and take responsibility, there might even be a chance that they'll leave it at that.

However:
More importantly, if you are still a student, it's your instructor who will get the phone call/letter/license withdrawn. At the very least you need to let him/her know.

[the.flying.slug]

Thanks, Morten. I messaged my instructor earlier and will see what he says. Who/what department would I call about this? It was a very minor infringement, just a few seconds and less that 100ft.

[the.flying.slug]

Surprised at that attitude, FD...?

Sorry, what do you mean by this?

[Morten]

Surprised at that attitude, FD...?

Sorry, what do you mean by this?

Sorry for being obtuse - I was just surprised at the advice given by Flyin' Dutch. He is normally very conservative and advocate of taking responsibility; I found his post contrary that how I normally read his posts. I was wondering whether he had any specific reasons for being slightly more 'deceitful' in this instance than usual...

Who/what department would I call about this?

Good question. In the case of a CTR, it would be the ATC unit of the airfield in question - phone numbers would be in e.g. Pooley's or the AIP entry for the airfield.
In the case of a TMA, there is also a 'controlling unit' but it's less obvious to find a phone number for them.
As a starter, I'd go to the airfield the TMA is attached to, which for the London TMA could be City, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted or Heathrow...
The number listed for Heathrow is a NATS number which is as good a place as any, but they may pass you around the houses a bit. If you were closer to Luton or one of the others there are more 'direct' numbers for their ATC in the AIP. Failing that, talk to the ATC/AFIS/AGC at your home airfield.

I think that the thing here is that you should be (i) seen to make an effort to ascertain whether you infringed and (ii) seen to make their life easier by contacting them rather than letting them trace you. You will not be given a reprimand or anything like that over the phone, nor will they likely be particularly interested in hearing your explanation or apologies (although they will appreciate it on a personal level), but it should be recorded that you made the effort and that will count in your favour if it should come to anything.

But wait for your instructor to get back to you and follow his advice.

Take it as a good opportunity to learn. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how we deal with those mistakes that separates the wheat from the chaff

[Charles Hunt]

50 feet for a short time?

We’re in the realms of accuracy of instruments here. By all means write down a contemporaneous record but I can’t see anyone getting too worked up over this. It can't be worth the paperwork.

If anyone in authority is worried about it leave it to them. I certainly wouldn’t poke the sleeping beast by drawing attention to it.

[CapnM]

I'm not familiar with the London area but who were you talking to (or listening sqawk?) at the time?

[jacekowski]

Whole pitot static transponder system is allowed to be out by 200ft, so transponder may be reporting you at 2700ft while you are at 2500ft - this is why you have to report your altitude on initial contact with a radar unit so they can check if your mode C data is serviceable.
If you were in contact with a LARS unit they would have said something at the time (i know from my own experience when my transponder showed me inside class A while transiting southend class D - i was given not below 3400ft with TMA at 3500, so i was at 3450ft, whole exchange went somewhere along the way
southend - report your altitude
me - 3450ft QNH whatever it was
southend - can you descend your transponder is showing you as inside london TMA
me - unable that would put me below 3400ft i was cleared for
southend - roger
and that was it, there was nothing else mentioned of it
)
So as long as transponder showed you no more than 200ft inside TMA you are fine.