Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

#1622139
My logbooks show a 10 year gap between my first 4h 30m of instruction and the remainder. That to a very large extent was due to me getting the strong impression from school 1 that really it would be less inconvenience if I would just send them weekly cheques.

When I restarted with a new school that had not long opened I found it to be much more agreeable. Even then in the early days there was a mix of instructors, all lovely people to be sure but of varying effectiveness for me as the pupil. Then I got Rod who pretty much saw me through the remainder, a great instructor, very relaxed, knew when to shut up, when to speak up or take back control so I consider myself very fortunate.

I have been in other flying schools where the 'vibe' made me glad that I wasn't a student. So I can relate to some of what @Cheney Jawa has been through.
#1622148
Sooty25 wrote:
And I think its going to get worse when the ability to convert an NPPL to LAPL and for NPPL pilots to fly EASA aircraft finally get removed, that will remove the option of starting on microlights and working up. At the moment it is theoretically possible to to start with a NPPL(M) and work through to ATPL, When the NPPL break happens I can't see it helping anyone. I personally think all new pilots should be encouraged to start with Microlight and work through as getting that first licence is far less complex.

Just my thoughts, I'm sure someone will shoot me down.

Oh @Cheney Jawa before you give up completely, have half an hour in a 3 axis microlight, a C42, Skyranger, Eurofox type and see whether it fits your mission, unless your plans always were to fly 5 mates to Cote D'Azur.


Unfortunately that route has already closed as of 8th April. There is no route to LAPL from 3 axis micro's. Unless your licence was issued pre 8th April.

B1
#1622165
yes, for fresh starters, and the clock is ticking for those with NPPL who want to convert else lose access to EASA aircraft and licencing.

But from an ab-initio training perspective, starting with the reduced demands of Microlight licence would make progress easier for the hobby flier, yet it doesn't get encouraged or recommended as few schools cater for both.
#1622170
This is terribly sad tale and understandably you are feeling down and let down, as you have been.
I can only reiterate the views of Flying Dutch and suggest as Sooty 25 and Cockney Steve have done that you could give microlights a try. You will probably (there is always an odd one out in anything) find the instructors enthusiastic and commited. As there is very little money in it for them most are driven by their own love of flying and a desire to pass that on.
Good Luck
Sooty25 liked this
#1622538
Someone sent you off solo, and sent you off on the QXC.

They wouldn't have done that if they thought you couldn't fly safely.

Maybe you won't be a commercial pilot, a flying instructor or a red bull air racer but you are capable of taking off, flying somewhere and getting back safely.

So seriously consider just getting the test done if you can. That's what I would do anyway.

Assuming you can afford it then at least pay for an hour 'confidence building' lesson. Just a pre prepared navigation triangle or something. Maybe it will be successful and you will realise that you are more ready than you think.
kingbing, Spooky liked this
User avatar
By Melanie Moxon
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1622809
That is a terribly sad thing to read. It’s hard to know how to respond to it really as I must have been lucky to be at a club where the CFI was committed to his students and fitted trial flights in around ongoing flight training, he even stayed on after retirement to get the last three PPL students that were close through their tests.

If you can muster the enthusiasm (given what you have written I’d understand if you couldn’t) to get everything finished off and the test done then go for it. Though if I were you and you have no commercial ambitions I'd give microlight flying a shot as it seems to offer somebody who just wants to fly for fun and going somewhere on a nice day for leisure purposes everything that they need!
#1627955
Thank you everyone for your comments, as I said previously this forum proved invaluable during my journey and it continues to provide a plethora of advice (and opinion!) right until the bitter end.

Firstly and foremostly thank you everyone that offered some RHS time, you don’t know me, you have never met me yet you openly offered your time to give me something that I so very much enjoyed.

Unfortunately (and I probably sound very ungrateful) but my dream was to able to take my wife flying, my kids, my dad and the old boy next door so he could tick it off his bucket list!, RHS time unfortunately doesn’t facilitate this :(

To those that suggested I should get on with it unfortunately I now can’t carry on with my quest to satisfy my PPL as 2 years has just elapsed following my final exam.

If I made it sound like I wasn’t good enough to pass the PPL then I was probably doing myself down a bit (I am quite down about it all!), however I did everything I needed to do and was confident enough myself to do it (as obviously my instructors were), in fact I considered my self quite good at it!, unfortunately the last leg (skills test) I didn’t do very well and subsequently got absolutely no support whatsoever.

My flying is now over, I am bitter over the whole thing, I feel I’ve been ‘had’ by the aviation industry/don’t give a sh*t instructors and I’ve been very close to naming and shaming the outfits responsible for taking 15k of my money and three years of my life in an effort to warn other unsuspecting individuals of these quite frankly unscrupulous operations, it’s left a very bad taste and it’s a shame there’s no organisation that could hold these outfits to account....

Thank you again to those who offered support (on here only) hopefully my story will serve as a warning to those embarking on a journey similar to mine.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1627959
Forgive me, but I still don't really understand why you've given up unless the desire to fly has just gone away.

You did the whole course, and then stuffed up the skills test - plenty of people have done that, indeed I had one where I made a bit of a hash of the nav, and my examiner was nice enough to say 'ok, let's call that a mock, we'll rearrange'.

You've had some unsupportive instructors, and you're not the first, or the last, to experience that. Indeed quite a few years ago I taught my partner at the time to land my aeroplane after she'd been written off by three separate instructors that were obviously just poor teachers. But they're not all like that.

If you found another flight school, talked to a few of the instructors and found one you clicked with, you could redo all the exams (you did them once!), and finish the course in less than a year.

What am I missing? What's the real reason you've decided to give up?
mick w liked this
#1627966
I found the nine exams really tough, in fact they were the toughest part for me, I’ve no wish to do them again and all the stress that went with them, I enjoyed the flying immensely!, I didn’t enjoy the exams!

If it wasn’t for that element I’d be going out of my way to find a school/club/instructor that I could 100% trust and cracking on with it.....
User avatar
By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1627972
You've had a hard paper-round with which we all sympathise. But I don't think that you can or should condemn the entire PPL training scene on the basis of that experience. Ultimately whether you now continue or not comes down to you. If you still have the appetite to fly and to take others flying then you just have to put that experience behind you, man-up, knuckle-down, and get on with it. If you don't then that's an entirely reasonable decision which everyone can respect.

There are decent instructors out there, you know. And decent flying schools... There are people who LOVE teaching other people to fly, especially challenging ones. So it's your call...

PS. And you've done the exams once already. So you know that they're not really hard... :D
TopCat liked this
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1628006
Cheney Jawa wrote:I found the nine exams really tough, in fact they were the toughest part for me, I’ve no wish to do them again and all the stress that went with them, I enjoyed the flying immensely!, I didn’t enjoy the exams!

If it wasn’t for that element I’d be going out of my way to find a school/club/instructor that I could 100% trust and cracking on with it.....

One final observation, and then I'll shut my mouth and mind my own business:

You've written two long and bitter posts about how awful your experience was, and in neither one did you mention, even in passing, that you found the writtens so stressful. If that's the real reason you're giving up then perhaps it's for the best you don't fly, as IMO, one important character trait pilots should have is the determination to persevere when the going gets tough.

However, I find it hard to believe that's the whole reason, as, given that you've done them all once and passed them, it's inconceivable that they could be as difficult the second time. You're clearly not a thickie, so learning the material, even if it's difficult, will be about finding a good teacher and applying yourself, much like the flying itself, in fact.

Your earlier posts are mostly about it being someone else's fault. This one is about a reason for giving up that doesn't even come close to ringing true. My feeling, for what it's worth, is that your situation is complicated, but you haven't really separated the experience of the thing, from the thing itself.

Feel free to tell me to sod off and MYOB, but if you change your mind and want a tutor, PM me. I have 30 years experience of tutoring Maths, Physics and Chemistry up to A Level, mostly with kids whose schools have failed them. I specialise in getting inside their heads and figuring out why they don't get it. I could brush up on the bits of the PPL syllabus I've forgotten easily enough, so if you live anywhere near me, I may be able to help.

Best of luck either way.
mick w, JAFO, Cryogenng and 3 others liked this
#1628157
Cheney Jawa,
Take a step back and study the offers you have been given. Help with the exams from Top Cat and a number of offers of RHS time, from some very experienced pilots and instructors.
This is a fantastic opportunity to get started again at minimal cost.
If you still want to fly, why not take up these offers, then afterwards, you would only need a few hours with an instructor to get to test standard.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Sooty25, Artschool liked this
User avatar
By mo0g
#1636381
Okay, first you are still young in PPL terms, so you have plenty of flying time with your family and friends even if you were starting from scratch now.

What I would do, when ready to start thinking about all this again, is make a list of the exam subjects, ranking from those you found easiest (generally subjects you are interested in). Take the top 6 subjects and split them into twos, I would personally do 1 & 6, 2 & 5, 3 & 4, the aim here is to pick two subjects/exams which you feel comfortable studying for and being able to pass the exams for in a 10 day 'session'. Study the first two at whatever pace suits, until you get some mojo back, and when you are confident that you can pass both in a 'session', book them in somewhere convenient. When done move onto the second two, at your leisure. Repeat for the last set of two. Once that is done you have 3 exams left, and 3 sessions, so less pressure on the those you found most difficult, you dont have any distractions of flying or stress with flying clubs and costs.

Now, however long it takes, hold off on that last exam until you have the last part organised, so that your 2 year window has no danger of expiring before your GST. The last part is to find a relaxed and understanding club, who accept you have done all the required training so all you need to actually do with them is a flight to determine what areas you might need to practice on, then a couple of mock tests (for your confidence) and then book the GST - this should not cost much, but what I would personally recommend is finding a school in Florida, where they will have decent aircraft availability, be used to UK pilots coming to finish off PPLs and hour building as well as doing ab initio training, and as importantly have the weather to virtually guarantee some consistent flying. There will be some admin hoops to jump through these days, some additional costs for the visa, medical etc, but you could take the family so it is also a bit of a holiday as well.

I kept getting my qual cross country cancelled due to weather here, so went to FLA (Ormond Beach) to finish off - so wasnt as far forward as you are. I went for 2 weeks with my wife, the second week was just holiday but the first week had plenty of time to relax. A lot of my stress in the UK was the amount of marginal weather forecasts, so mentally I would never know for sure if I was flying until the morning of the booking, in Florida I knew I was flying in the booked slots so had none of that stress.

You could do all of the above and plan to finish off with a UK school with a block booking during a period of good weather, the main advice here is to get back on the horse at your own pace with the exams, be in no rush, and only when the last one is (about to be) done sort out the flying again.

PM me if you need any more info about my Florida flying experiences.
#1637458
I echo trying the Microlight route.

Exams are the same, flying is slightly different, but the crowd seem a lot friendlier in my experience so far. The other advantage is that instructors are doing it for the love of flying rather than hour building to a commercial job.

Give it a go and see what you think. With your experience I’d have thought you’d complete it in minimal hours.

I suffered similar “I feel like packing it” emotions when I was flying down South. The instructor had me go solo in the May, but between then and November I amassed only 2.5 hours solo flight despite flying most weeks. In hindsight I should have found a new instructor but the trouble was that at the time, I assumed the instructor had reasons for holding me back (turned out it was because he wouldn’t be paid if I went solo) so I believed the “circuits not accurate enough” “wasn’t sure on your approach” excuses :roll:

Thankfully we moved area and although I planned to cut my losses, I visited the local school just to see if I felt any urge to keep going. The chap who ran the school was enthusiastic and you could see his love of flying.
I explained my situation and he took me flying the following day
the day after that he sent me solo for an hour
The week after that he sent me solo out the circuit
The day after that we did the joint nav exercise
The following week I had my first solo cross country
The week after that I had my second cross country
A month later and a couple of mock test lessons tomiron out any issues, I passed my test :)

My only regret was the minimal hours I spent with him! However since this time last year, I’ve flown over 100 hours with my wife, my son, my friends etc. I love flying and I’m glad that I didn’t give in due to a dodgy instructor.