Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By Cryogenng
#1618105
I'm getting towards the end of my training for a LAPL.

I understand after I pass my skills test and get my license I will need to do 10 hours PIC before I can take passengers.

I also understand that I can do some more hours dual and solo (and other stuff like QXC) to 'convert' to a PPL in the future.

My question is two fold:

Can I use hours that I do before I get my license but after I (hopefully) pass my skills test, which are technically supervised solo signed out by an instructor, as part of the 10 hours-before-PAX requirement?

and in a similar vein, Can I use the these hours to count for both the 10-hours-pax requirement and the hours-to-convert-to-PPL requirement?

Or does all of that have to be done separately, and after I get my bit of paper through the post?
By iaindings
#1618646
I asked exactly these questions at my school last week - dont take this as authoritative but it's what I was told

1 - I was told yes - it's 10 hours after sitting skills test, not obtaining the license but the CAA site does seem to suggest this isnt the case - "You can only carry passengers after getting your licence and also completing 10 hours of flight time as PIC.". I'm hoping to get something more concrete on this myself

2 - My understanding is that the PPL after LAPL isnt really a conversion, you'd be doing the same as a new PPL. So long as you meet the PPL requirements it's all fine - so supervised solo definitely counts towards the hours for PPL
By Cryogenng
#1618648
Thanks, that was similar to my thinking. It's quite difficult to find someone in the know about these things, I'm finding!

However, I did do a bit of reading of CAP 804 this morning (what a joy that was!) and came across this:

Holders of an LAPL(A) shall only carry passengers after they have completed, after the issuance of
the licence, 10 hours of flight time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG


I'm not sure what exactly issuance means in this context, but I think it means only when you actually get the paperwork in hand?
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619143
FWIW, and bear in mind I'm not a qualified pilot, :oops:

Issuance.....to me, this implies , -the time the licence was actually issued, -which as we all know, is not the same thing as receipt of same by the recipient......I would also argue, based on multiple threads on various Aviation Fora, that the date of "issuance" is the date from which the validity -period starts, -this is reported as x years from the date of qualifying, though several have recently reported waits of months , rather than days or weeks, to get the papers in their hands...
Of course, the big hole in my theory, is the fact that crystal balls with working visuals, are in short supply, therefore there's no way of knowing the date of issuance ,as there's nobody capable,to answer the phone.


Getting the licence in hand, i'd suggest, is receipt,

Issuance, despatch, transit, receipt.....in that order. As someone suggested a while back, the legislation appears to be poorly and vaguely worded in order that everything has to be "interpreted", thus giving the enforcers plenty of wiggle-room-appositely, like Alice in Wonderland , where Humpty Dumpty stated "whenever I use a word, it means whatever I want it to mean"
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By flybymike
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1619148
As someone suggested a while back, the legislation appears to be poorly and vaguely worded

Not least by the use of the ghastly Americanism “issuance” where the simple English equivalent “issue” would mean exactly the same thing without the pompous legalese.
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By iaindings
#1629269
So, after more than a month of trying, I get 2 firm answers to this twice within about 10 minutes.

First from a fellow student who got his application off a few weeks before I did. The license says "10 hours after the issuance of this license" and the issue date was 2 days prior to it being delivered. I had held some hope that the issue date would have been set to the skills test date.

Then, literally 10 minutes later I get this from the CAA in reply to the mail I sent at the start of June

"Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email. At the outset, please accept my apologies for the unintentional delay in our response; I can assure you that there was no discourtesy intended on our part.

The 10 hours are once you receive your LAPL licence in hand"

Any hopes of getting the 10 hours done while waiting for the license officially dashed. At least the turnaround times dont seem to be too bad right now