Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Harry Karmel
#1609273
I’m almost 17 years old and am about to start LAPL training. I understand the LAPL vs PPL argmuent but I simply can’t afford a PPL at the moment. It struck me as to how I could afford to keep up my license and use it (without just renting hourly from a school). Does anyone have experience with ultra low cost flying?
I’m thinking that I should just wait to get lucky and find a super cheap share in a plane (microlight probably for my budget). My budget is really no more than £1500 for the initial purchase with no more than £50 per hour wet. Is this budget unrealistic and is this the best route to go down or are there any better ones?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanks!
Harry Karmel
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By Rob P
#1609610
It seems to me that you have just hit on one of the issues with the LAPL.

Unless you have found somewhere that charges less per lesson to train you for the LAPL, if you can't afford a PPL (using the headline costs published) then you can't really afford to fly after you gain your LAPL either.

I think it very unlikely that any proud owners (or their insurers) would be happy with a bare minimum hours LAPL holder wandering about in their pride and joy.

Others will be along shortly, I'm guessing gliding and microlighting will be high amongst the answers provided.

Your location might be useful information to add to the post.

Good luck anyway, and welcome :D

Rob P
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By Rob P
#1609620
Er.. No.

My guess was that people might suggest gliding and microlights as alternatives to get flying experience until Harry can afford to fly for a PPL and continue afterwards.

Rob P
#1609631
Gliding seems like the way to go........makes you a better pilot when you do have the money to fly powered and you will make the contacts to (maybe) enable you to snaffle that tug-driving seat later and get some free flying. Think ahead!
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609633
I think that the important question here is what is your reason for learning to fly?


The only reason to specifically pursue the Single Engine Piston route (such as is permitted by LAPL) at your age is because you very specifically want those sort of hours, with a view to presumably an airline pilot career.

If you have any other reason to learn to fly: a simple passion for flying, a hope to become a military pilot, a hope to become an aeronautical engineer (to name three) then the LAPL is probably the wrong route.

My suggestion would be to look firstly at gliding - because the training and club environment are built differently to "get licence, set free"in the way that most of the SEP world is, you will find that you can fly as much, or as little, as you can find the time and money for. You'll steadily build time, experience and skill - and not at-all unimportant, you're likely to find a really enjoyable club environment as well that is well geared to young people who may well have more enthusiasm and time, than they do money.

There is nothing to stop you going SEP later when you have money (or microlight, which is how I learned to fly, and have absolutely no regrets about that, albeit that I now have a CPL and mostly fly larger aeroplanes).

G
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609638
But....

If you have a particular interest in things with engines, but still don't "need" SEP hours, then I would suggest shoot for the NPPL(M). Microlights are often better more modern aeroplanes in the training environment, cheaper, and may well also give you better fundamental flying skills.

£1500 will easily buy you a share in a well run real microlight syndicate (by "real" I mean run by its owners and members, not by a school for profit), or even potentially a whole aircraft. Rob Grimwood, the BMAA's Chief Test Pilot Fixed Wing, and also runs a successful flying school at Plaistows won a scholarship for his PPL(M) when he was 17, then bought and restored an old tatty microlight - and ended up world microlight champion (with a degree in aerospace engineering as well IIRC). These routes exist.

I decided to learn to fly when I was an aeronautical engineering university student, started with microlights because it was what I could afford. What I learned from that base, worked very well in building my career in flight test and subsequently airborne research. So microlighting is a pretty good route too that I wouldn't necessarily talk you out of (notwithstanding my recommendation for gliding above).

G
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609640
With groups there is normally a monthly cost as well as a "wet" one per hour. When hiring, all the costs are rolled into the wet price. If you are only flying one hour a month, the same aircraft will likely cost the same to hire as it would being part of a group.
Some aircraft are simpler or maintenance can be done by yourself which brings down costs. However you can only hire factory built aircraft (this is a simplification) so very cheap hiring isn't a thing, and your budget wouldn't be enough for insurance (etc) monthly costs.

I hope someone else can think of a solution, but as others say, that may be gliding.
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By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609663
View from the peasants corner...

The figures you give would get you close to a half share in a moderately aged two-stroke X'Air (or Thruster, or AX3000, or Shadow, things of that nature) or a third or so in a tidy one. The running costs are well within that. I reckon in mine I spent all in about £2500 a year all in owning a newish X'Air Falcon alone - and half that now with a partner.

It doesn't maintain my SEP rating - I do a retest in an EASA type every other year which is tedious but still cheaper overall that keeping it via currency in EASA type.

Probably I could save even that cost if I did whatever was needful to get an NPPL , but between that NPPL and LAPL and EASA and all the clobber I've always just stuck with the paperwork I understand!

it doesn't address the problem of getting the license in the first place, that's always going to be the pricey bit, but in terms of sustainability there are options down here in the weeds!
Last edited by leiafee on Sat May 05, 2018 7:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
By rogerb
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609825
Yes there are a lot of cheap microlights, many of which I enjoy flying, but I agree with Bathman. My experience was having gained my ppl via a flying scholarship, a great group of chaps with a Nipper put me on the insurance and permitted a cash strapped student to fly it for fuel only. True gentlemen and I'll be forever grateful for their kindness.
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By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609854
The X'Air does have the further advantage of being a super-gentle little machine, easy to fly, easy to look after, easy to get parts for, easy to find for sale.

Seems to me maybe a better option for a cheap first aircraft for a new flyer than a single single vintage taildragger, even with the groupA thing. Otherwise it seems like the first swathe of cost saving will vanish into tailwheel differences training taking away most of the time and cost saving of LAPL over PPL.

I'm sure they're lovely and would be a fun choice for someone who already was happy in tailwheel and just wanted cheap vintage flying but for this scenario I'm not so sure.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1609881
Incidentally, if something breaks on a modernish microlight like the X'Air, there is also a massively better chance of sourcing parts to get it flying again quickly - certainly compared to old, probably wood, SEP types with likely oddball engines.

G