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By puestadesol
#1601770
I noticed today on approach that within my AFE Pre-Landing checks that there is no mention of turning on landing lights.

Does anyone have any idea why this is? I appreciate it's obvious but surely nothing is too obvious to be excluded from a checklist?

Thanks in advance.
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By T67M
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601773
Until recently, I've always used custom written checklists because none of the commercial offerings are absolutely perfect. Since we started using the manufacturer checklist as mandated by EASA, I have been truly shocked by some of the errors, for example today the checklist for the aircraft "required" me to change fuel tank between the run-up and takeoff!
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601790
I have an intense dislike of the vast majority of off-the-shelf commercial checklists, and I'm not sure I'm much happier with some I've seen from flying schools. Often very generic, assume some particular fit, locality, or just that I really like going through checklists.

Personally I have for most types a big folder of 2-side A5 pages covering operating speeds, how to start the engine, run-ups, emergency drills and a few basics, for each type that I've flown, then use either memorised microlight mnemonics, or a 2-side generic light aeroplane checklist.

Alternatively, just create your own, we've all got word processor software and access to a printer, pull out the core checks from the official POH, and print your own off.


But a Pooleys/AFE/ASA/whoever commercial checklist, which is almost certainly just copied from the per checklist of some long bankrupt flying school somewhere (and in the case, for example, of Pooleys checklists doesn't include any emergency drills - a bit of a glaring emission!) is almost invariably a poor solution to a simple problem.

Here with my blessing is my generic checklist, it'll do anything as simple as a PA38 and then some.

This side, checks required in-flight – confirm these are compatible with each type.

After take-off
B - Brakes, on-off
F - Flaps, up in stages at safe height
T - Temperatures and Pressures, checked, green sectors.
F - Fuel Pump, off at safe height.


Cruise and rejoin
F - Fuel, correct tank, sufficient to continue
R - Radios, on and correct frequencies. ATIS if required.
E - Engine, Temperatures and Pressures, mixture, ammeter, suction.
D - DI (HI), synchronised with compass.
A - Altimeter, set as required.
(Alternative F I R A D Fuel / Instruments / Radios / Altimeter / DI))

Stalling and Aerobatics
H - Height, sufficient for safety
A - Airframe, flaps as required, brakes off
S - Security, Canopy, harness, loose articles secured.
E - Engine, mixture rich, fullest tank selected, booster pump on, RPM as required, temperatures and pressures correct.
L - Location, confirmed, clear of airfields, built-up areas, cloud and controlled airspace.
Lookout, turn to check for other aircraft.

Pre-Landing
B - Brakes, checked and off
U - Undercarriage, down or fixed
M - Mixture, rich
Master and Magnetos, on.
P - Propeller, set for landing
F - Fuel : Pump on
On, correct tank, sufficient for go-around.
Flaps, As required for landing.
I - Instruments, Temperatures and Pressures green.
C - Carb Heat, checked / as required
H - Harness, Hatch, locked and tight.
W - Wind, suitable for runway, in-limits
L - Landing Light, On.

This side, checks required on ground– confirm these are compatible with each type.

Taxi
B - Brakes, checked as soon as possible.
R - Rudder, steering checked left and right.
I - Instruments, confirm slip ball, compass, DI, AI in turns.

Pre take-off
Tt - Trimmers, free movement and set for take-off, Throttle Friction, set as required
Mm - Mixture, rich, Magnetos, both.
Pp, Pitot Heat, as required, Propeller, full fine
Ff, Fuel, sufficient for sortie, selected fullest tank, pump on; Flaps, set for take-off
Hh - Hatches, Harnesses, secure, locked and tight.
I - Instruments, all checked, set, engine instruments in green sectors.
Cc - -Controls, full and free. Cowl Flaps


After Landing
F - Flaps, up; Fuel pump, off.
C - Carb heat, Cold.
P - Pitot Heat, Off.
U - Unnecessary Equipment, Off. (transponder)

Shutdown
P - Parking brake, on
T - Throttle, ground idle. Wait for temperatures and pressures to stabilise.
M - Magnetos, check for dead-cut
R - Radios, Off.
T - Throttle, Closed
M - Mixture, Idle – Cut-Off
L - Light, off or as required
M - Magneto Switches, off.
C - Controls, Canopy, secured.
F - Fuel, off.


And the core bits for the PA38, again copied from my own...

T/O Flap= 0° (21° short / soft field)
VR= 53 kn

Initial climb: 70 kn (Obstacle clearance): 61 kn

Land flap= 34°
Approach: 70 kn
Finals: 67 kn


X-wind: 15 kn (wing-down technique)

Best glide: 70
Best climb: 70

Vso: 47
VS1: 48

VFE: 89
VA: 103

VNO 110
VNE: 138

Other limitations
+3.8 clean, +2.0 flaps down.
No –Ve g manoeuvres permitted.
No deliberate spinning or aerobatics
Engine: RPM 500-2600
Static RPM 2200 – 2350
Oil Temp. 75-245°F
Oil Press. 15 – 100 psi
(normal range 60-90,
90-100 ground warm up)
Fuel Press. 0.5 – 8 psi


Starting sequence (internal power)
Throttle: ½” open if cold
Cracked open if hot
Full if flooded
Master switch: ON
Electric pump ON (Off if flooded)
Mixture Rich (ICO if flooded)
Primer 4 pumps if cold
Starter Operate
(Mixture) (forward if flooded)
Throttle Set 1200


Main Emergencies
Spin Ailerons NEUTRAL / Rudder FULL OPPOSITE / Yoke FULLY FORWARDS / Throttle CLOSED / (once spin has stopped) Rudder NEUTRAL / Pull out from dive / Flaps RETRACT (if extended)
Engine fire during start Starter CONTINUE TO CRANK / Mixture ICO / Throttle FULL / Fuel pump OFF / Fuel selector OFF.
Fire in flight Fuel OFF / Throttle CLOSED / Mixture ICO / Cabin heat OFF / (once radio is not required) Battery-master OFF.
Open door Airspeed 90 kn / Vents CLOSED / CV panel OPEN / Top-latch LATCHED / Side-latch (if open), pull arm rest whilst closing.
(Close side latch then top latch if both are open).
Go-around Full power, carb heat off / 70 kn. / Select 21° (mid) flap once climbing / Flaps up once at safe height
Engine restart Restart at 75 kn using electric starter.



There you go, half an hour with copy and paste into your favourite word processor and an office printer, and you have a better checklist than most that you can buy from pilot shops.

G
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601791
puestadesol wrote:I noticed today on approach that within my AFE Pre-Landing checks that there is no mention of turning on landing lights.

Does anyone have any idea why this is? I appreciate it's obvious but surely nothing is too obvious to be excluded from a checklist?

Thanks in advance.


Answering the specific question - not turning the landing light on will cause you embarrassement, it will not cause you to crash, the engine to stop, and if you really need it, will notice that you need it then turn it on.

Therefore the landing light is arguably a general airmanship point, not a safety-essential item, and thus can reasonably be left off a printed checklist (although I'll admit it's in mine).

G
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601817
Maybe they think that if people are flying at night, they'll realise for themselves when they can't see the runway in the flare! :D

Saying that, the Cessna I did my night rating on had a dodgy landing light which only worked sometimes. It was better in a way, at least for landing, as it forced you to use the perspective of the runway edge lights. But it was a bit of an effort subsequently finding the parking space...
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601875
[smart.ar se answer} Our landing light, being a 2,000 hour LED stays on all the time for conspicuity [/smart.ar se. answer]

Peter :wink:
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601906
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Maybe they think that if people are flying at night, they'll realise for themselves when they can't see the runway in the flare! :D

Saying that, the Cessna I did my night rating on had a dodgy landing light which only worked sometimes. It was better in a way, at least for landing, as it forced you to use the perspective of the runway edge lights. But it was a bit of an effort subsequently finding the parking space...


I'm looking at the far end of the runway in the flare, and the shape of lights as I was taught.

I'm of the opinion that a landing light is primarily there to help anybody on or near the runway see me, then it's handy taxiing.

G
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601935
Yep. When you're first training at night, if you have the landing light on it can fool you into only flaring when you can see the runway going past in the light, which isn't the way to do it.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1601968
I was taught to flare when the runway sidelights appear to come up to your shoulders: Worked well for me.

Peter
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By NDB_hold
#1602098
Guessing from your name that T67M flies one of those... our club has just changed over to a mix of T67s M and C, and issued club approved checklists for each specific registration. Prior to that I had made my own based on the AFE format (because that’s what I’m used to) and the POH. I’ve already given up on the club ones because among other things they told me to change tanks on a single tank aircraft.

Bottom line? Read the POH and make your own.
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602108
I'd agree with pretty well everything that GtE suggests. The item that I have now added to the end of my own time-honoured pre-takeoff and pre-landing checks is 'electrics' which wraps up landing light, transponder, strobes, etc.
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By David Wood
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602242
Genghis the Engineer wrote:Spin Ailerons NEUTRAL / Rudder FULL OPPOSITE / Yoke FULLY FORWARDS / Throttle CLOSED / (once spin has stopped) Rudder NEUTRAL / Pull out from dive / Flaps RETRACT (if extended)

G

I hope I'm not being pedantic, but do you mean this?
I'm thinking of the order of actions, in particular with reference to closing the throttle and to moving the stick progressively forward.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1602245
Pedantry saves lives, but that is in fact the order in section 3.19 on page 3-12 of the PA38 POH I have, for an inadvertent spin.

Presumably it was tested that way, and there's good reason for this.

Later in the POH it says that deliberate spins should be flown with the throttle closed throughout.

G