[law2gap]

Hi all,

I've had a pause of several months in training (mainly due to weather and Christmas closures and needing to focus on final round of exams) having built up to the solo Nav but was then thwarted by our lovely British climate.

Over the last few weeks I have been giving serious thought to switching to the PA28 as I started learning in the PA28 but was advised to change to the C-152 about 10 hours in (on the basis that "you really have to fly them"), but frankly while I love flying I just feel the C-152 is so cramped and feels older as well as more prone to turbulence which on choppier days induces anxiety when I'm flying solo; I read a good thread on here about anxiety and identified with a lot of what was said and I have also posted a while back about being prone to motion sickness, my thoughts were switching to the PA28 now (which I am going to have to do anyway) would help with those issues given it is more stable, more forgiving and is a bit more spacious and I don't see myself flying the C-152 recreationally once I've got my license. Is there any disadvantage (other than cost obviously) of switching now, given I have had the gap and will need to take some time getting back in the saddle? How much of a set back do you think it would be - I floated the idea with one of my instructors (have had several) and she didn't think it was a good idea, but if I'm converting anyway, what's the issue?

Cheers
Greg

[Genghis the Engineer]

I would say if you're going to switch, switch and stay switched. There's more value in getting to know an aeroplane well at this stage than in learning to switch types.

Now, that said, whilst the PA28 is a good comfortable safe touring aeroplane, my opinion is to keep yourself out of it. It's a poor training aeroplane for a bunch of reasons, including...

- Poor visibility out
- Extremely benign stalling characteristics
- Lack of student side door
- Extreme flightpath stability, failing to teach you to deal with turbulence.

It doesn't teach good handling skills and respect for the aeroplane in the way that the C152 does, which in my opinion is a much superior trainer.

I would say finish your licence in the C152, it'll make you a better pilot. THEN convert to the PA28 as a qualified and better trained pilot.

G

[Dangerman]

It doesn't teach good handling skills and respect for the aeroplane in the way that the C152 does, which in my opinion is a much superior trainer.
G

Agree completely with the above. I learned in the PA28 and really like them. However after passing my test I got a share in a Grumman. Didn't have any problems with transitioning to that, but when I came back to flying the PA28 recently it just felt like flying a barge. As G says it does make you a bit complacent - just point it in the right direction, trim it and it just gets on with it. Which is great for sightseeing with friends, but probably not ideal for training.

That said - if you aren't enjoying flying the 152 then change to something that you enjoy rather than, perhaps, giving up. The more you fly the more comfortable with it you get (but I am another one who is still always nervous before I push that throttle forward).

Caveat - never actually flown a 152

[Genghis the Engineer]

As it happens, the Grumman's not a bad trainer, also the PA38 Tomahawk.

But I don't rate either the PA28 or the very similar (to fly, not to look at) C172, for the training role. They may have plenty of other good features of course, not least how safe both are.

G

[BehyBill]

Go for it your comfort inside the cockpit and and easy airplane to fly are worth it diring the training.

After getting the PPL (which is nothing else than a licence to learn) go back slowly with an instructor to learn how to fly more difficult and interesting aircrafts.

Ps: know someone who was advised by some skymaster to start on a supercub as :tailwheel will teach him", the guy never come back flying after a ground loop on the tarmac.

[Charles Hunt]

Fly what you want to.

[PeteSpencer]

Bouncing around in an anxiety inducing C152 is something you don't enjoy:
As you will not fly a C152 again switch now to the PA28.
Its not going to make your learning experience worse and will remove anxiety>
As you've already noted it'll cost more but what price comfort and confidence.

Good luck
Peter

[johnm]

If you like handling aeroplanes there is some merit in what Genghis said, but if you are learning to fly (as I did) to go places then PA 28 is a good basic vehicle and the C152 is a soapbox cart.

I learned to fly on PA 28, I have also flown the 152 (once) and the PA32R, Cessna 172 and 182 and currently TB20. All except the 152 are good going places machines with benign handling.

[FlightDek]

I started my training in a PA38 up to 1st solo. After that I switched to the PA28 for the Nav part of the course. I had tried the PA28 a couple of times before (when PA38 had gone tech) and noticed how much more stable it seemed. It made it easier to concentrate on what I was learning.

Cost-wise I don't think it made much of a difference. The hourly rate was a bit higher but the PA28 was a bit faster, so a nav to another airfield and back cost about the same. I just had slightly less hours in the logbook to show for it. I knew I was going to go over the 45hr minimum so this wasn't a problem

Dek

[Genghis the Engineer]

An easy to fly aeroplane, undemanding on the pilot, running on rails - does not necessarily create the best pilots, with good handling skill and as much excess mental capacity as they might occasionally need when things go wrong.

Hence my description earlier of the PA28 as a good touring aeroplane, but a poor training aeroplane. (And I have a couple of hundred hours in them, including my CPL skill test and a moderate amount of instructing, so am not just saying this about an aeroplane I flew once and didn't like much.)

G

[Crash one]

I learned in the 152 and Grob, then bought my Emeraude with it's tailwheel, 8years later I did a reval hour in a PA28. Between the few I've flown, 152, 172, Grob, Grumman, Emeraude, Cub and various gliders. The PA28 was the worst, heavy, barge like (sinking barge) awful visibility, I spent most of the hour trying to trim the thing hands off, unsuccessfully. Perhaps it's me but I don't understand how people would buy a share in one!
Other opinions are available.

[Charles Hunt]

Something wrong if it won't trim hands off.

I handed control to an ex Lancaster pilot.......

"Well, I must say you've got it trimmed nicely."

[rikur_]

I learnt in a mix of C172 and PA28 (Cherokee and Warrior), with just one lesson in a C152 (too cramped)

Personally I thought I got some value out of the variety - both from handling perspective, high-wing vs low-wing visibility, fuel pumps and changing tanks vs not, and other little oddities (?) like one of the C172's being venturi equipped and one of the Cherokees having no toe breaks. Even the transition from Cherokee to Warrior was interesting (as I floated and floated and floated before finally touching down!).

No doubt it wasn't the most efficient way to learn, but I felt I got a bit more out of it. I would support Genghis's view as well, that both the PA28 and C172 are very easy to fly, so when I transitioned to my first Firefly, it did feel a bit wobbly at first(!) and I hadn't perhaps got as much handling skills pre-PPL as I could have done.

I only have my own experience to draw upon, instructors will clearly have a more comprehensive view.

[law2gap]

Thanks for the advice, some very helpful perspectives. I think I will persevere with the C-152 as I quite liked the argument about training yourself in to a position where you have spare mental capacity to deal with things when it does get choppier (or worse!) in the PA28. I have a two month sabbatical coming up so hopefully one in the 61 days of March and April will produce weather conditions that will permit me to undertake the solo Nav!