[Murgatroyd]

I have an upcoming RT practical and I've been asked to ensure I'm aware of a few specifics for the test, yet despite almost exhausting what resource I have at hand, such as CAP413, RT Guidance leaflet(s) , not forgetting the Pooleys Air Law & Communications books and the interweb, I find myself having to place a couple of questions here. PPL Student.

Which service to request when entering a new airspace class? To date all my training has asked for basic service. Nothing else at all, and that's via areas that are known to have radar service, which can offer a higher grade of service. When and where should I ask for traffic service as opposed to a basic service?

Next question: SVFR zone transit in Class A: Again a specific point that I cant seem to find specific guidance for what the appropriate RT is. At present I'd simply request the controller of the zone for a zone transit and pass details etc. Does transiting Class A message differ to any other ATZ/MATZ crossing, as the guidance I've come across to date seems to be the same. Is this correct? thanks

[alexbrett2]

Inside controlled airspace it's always a radar control service, so doesn't matter what you ask for. Outside is up to you within whatever is available (obviously a non radar unit can't give you a traffic service).

I believe SVFR in class A is no longer allowed under SERA, that's why eg the Heathrow CTR was reclassified to D, so I don't think you can ask for that any more...

[johnm]

I assume the situation you are looking at is going from class G into class D in which case you should simply give call sign and request zone transit, you'll then be asked to give the usual details of your flight and be given a VFR clearance which may require a specific altitude and route. You may told Basic Service outside controlled airspace or asked what service you want outside controlled airspace in which case you can ask for a Traffic Service if you want to.

SVFR is only available in Class D and is only used if you can't meet the full VFR visibility and distance from cloud criteria or accept an IFR clearance.

[David Wood]

When and where should I ask for traffic service as opposed to a basic service?

It's a good question. To answer it you really need to understand what these services are and what you get from each.

A Basic Service means only that you are talking with an ATC unit (who might be a lowly Air/Ground radio or might be a fully radar-equipped Approach). It doesn't really matter what they are because when you boil it down a Basic Service mean only "I am talking with you". Nothing more.

So, if that is sufficient for you then a Basic Service is all you need. However, if you need information on other traffic then you would have to ask for a Traffic Service because although a controller MAY give you traffic information whilst you are on a Basic Service, you can't expect him to. The problem with a Traffic Service is that it raises the work-level of the controller and he just may not have the capacity to give it. Furthermore, you often don't actually need to know that, say, five miles away is another aircraft going the other way. In addition, taking a Traffic Service raises your own work-load because you have to respond to each message from the controller and they get understandably shirty if you don't. So a Traffic Service is a two-edged sword and is not, in my opinion, often worth it. Remember also that that Traffic Service does NOT keep you clear of other traffic - it just tells you about that traffic.

If you want to be kept clear of other traffic then you need a Deconfliction Service. But again that raises the workload of the controller still further and he may not have the capacity to provide it to you. Furthermore, it means that he may vector you hither and thither which may not be to your advantage in the long run.

As has already been said, once in controlled airspace you will usually be on a Radar Control service. This is confusingly named and the confusion has given rise to some near tragedies. If you are VFR it is still YOUR responsibility as the pilot to remain clear of terrain and clear of other traffic, even if within controlled airspace and even if on a Radar Control service.

[PaulB]

An air ground operator can't provide a basic service

It is defined as

2.1 A Basic Service is an ATS provided for the purpose of giving advice and information useful for the safe and efficient conduct of flights. This may include weather information, changes of serviceability of facilities, conditions at aerodromes, general airspace activity information, and any other information likely to affect safety. The avoidance of other traffic is solely the pilot’s responsibility.

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CA ... sue2_3.pdf

[rikur_]

minor correction - a basic service can either be provided by either an ATCO or FISO, but a AGO cannot offer a basic service

it's probably worth pointing out some of the reality in addition to the theory....

Many units still provide a "frisling" service - i.e. the agreed service being provided is a basic service, but they also provide an element of traffic information but might not do. Some people appreciate this; some are concerned that it lulls pilots into a false sense of security that they will always get traffic information.

A traffic service can become a nuisance if you are passing somewhere busy ..... a traffic service going close to Linton MATZ when training is in full swing is almost a full-time conversation. IMHO the criteria for alerting of traffic are excessive for a typical GA flight as you will be advised of lots of traffic (and radar clutter) that you won't come into conflict with (and again the risk of complacency of 'yes, yes, another one, roger').

I always request a traffic service if IMC or poor VMC - but will make a judgement in good VMC.

It is worth noting that you can change between services - for example requesting a traffic service whilst climbing/descending through cloud, but accepting a basic service on top... if you get a 'reduced traffic service due to controller workload' response, I may respond with 'request traffic service for the next 5 miles whilst climbing IMC' - as a compromise. Similarly when in IMC on a traffic service, I have on occasion requested deconfliction against specific traffic called out when it's not been evident what the best avoiding action would be.

[Andrew Sinclair]

SVFR is permitted in a Class A zone.

When I conduct RT exams, I expect the pilot to request the service they required on first contact and as mentioned this is based on the situation.

[Nick T]

And don't forget to read Safety Sense 22 for a sample FRTOL test.

Close to, but not quite the same as the real thing

[Murgatroyd]

Guys, my VMC is improving! reading these responses tonight has made things much clearer in terms of differences between the services available. I only wish I'd asked when I was taking the exams! thanks, much appreciated.

That's pretty much the only remaining boxes ticked too. I had read the Safety Sense leaflets and 22d in particular sank in better than trying to imagine my way through the CAP413 Borton flights!

I believe I will seek a basic service during the RT exam, as one a recent XCQ, 'Scottish' gave me considerable traffic info which served improve my general RT greatly and had me looking out with the knowledge there actually is someone to the north/west etc I'll also discuss with the examiner during the briefing. I'll explain the rationale and modify my actions according to his response.

Much clearer now.

[Murgatroyd]

Last printed page of air law practice paper.

[flybymike]

SVFR is available in a Class A zone.

When I conduct RT exams, I expect the pilot to request the service they required on first contact and as mentioned this is based on the situation.

Whereabouts are there any class A CTR zones?

[Andrew Sinclair]

SVFR is available in a Class A zone....

Whereabouts are there any class A CTR zones?

That's a valid point, I was commenting on the asertion that SVFR is only available in Class D zones, or to put it another way, not available in Class A zones, strictly that's true by virtue of the fact there are no Class A zones. I was being a pedant and commenting that it is permitted in a Class A zone, were there any. I have amended my earlier post.

[lobstaboy]

The OP asked about the RT practical exam. It's simple.
Outside controlled airspace when contacting a new unit ask for basic service. A matz counts as outside controlled airspace.
If wanting to cross or enter controlled airspace just say what you want in terms of routing. They will clear you as appropriate. Read back the clearance exactly as given. There's no such thing as basic or traffic service in controlled airspace, they are ATSOCAS only.
Remember "who you are, where you are, what you want".
Make sure you know exactly the format for a mayday or mayday relay call.

[Murgatroyd]

Guys, thanks for all the responses on this, it helped considerably. RT exam sat and passed and advice to those still to do it would be:
[list=]Safety sense leaflet 22 is very good and does step you through the process: well worth a read
I left the RT exam until the end and I think this is best, as the real experience, skill and confidence comes from using the RT in the air, in real situations. For me, learning the pretend routes in CAP413 was difficult to absorb
Position reporting accuracy is important, as is knowing where you are relative to VRPs etc during the 'test flight'
I was asked to report reaching 2000', but there was nothing that actually told me on the simulation what height I was at.
The ability to relay a mayday message was required, which was straightforward as the recording of the 'other' aircraft RT competence was good (as you'd expect)
The crossing of the Class A was emphasized for the request to transit HAD to mention specifically a "Special VFR clearance".
Where LARS coverage permitted, I asked and received a traffic service (phew)
The position fix was done via QDM against a station that the flight path took when almost abeam. This worked well and was easy enough to advise the examiner from this alone (I could have used the QDM to fly to the station and report from there)
On final, the aircraft ahead had an issue and blocked the runway: Remember to advise intentions when being told the runway is blocked. I advised I was diverting to the nearest alternative.
The clearance through the Class A, was granted with the condition not above 2000'. I flew it at 1800'
Remember to use the heading bug, but be prepared for continual adjustments, as the wind isn't vectored into the headings you're given.
The Pan Pan call was engine failure, but 'managed to restart' and hence cancelled Panpan call. [/list]

Overall, the exam was passed, but for me it was a less than 'happy' performance of my RT ability, I'd say because there's a bit of the brain that kept telling me "you're in a room in front of a PC", which I couldn't escape. Even the basic calls requesting taxi, then thinking through what I'd normally be doing out on the apron with power checks etc, counting down until I thought enough time had passed for me to state ready for departure.
Same when joining the overhead and advising 'radio' of my where abouts. I managed to get from 2000' AGL, overhead-deadside descending-downwind-final in about fifteen seconds. My RT has been better in 'real' situations and the genuine toughest thing for me was imagining my way through the steps I'd normally be taking when in actual flight.

Examiner was good and did prod slightly in right direction when necessary, but in general the essentials were there with the order of the information readback and the responses to 'pass your message' content good.

Thanks again for the tips, this did help and good luck for those still to do the RT practical.

[flybymike]

I’m not sure where this class A airspace would have been where you got a SVFR clearance not above 2000.