Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Jazzer
#1559875
Here goes...

I'm 34 years old, married with 2 young daughters and live in west central Scotland. I like most on here have been obsessed with planes and aviation all my life.

I've had a few trial lying lessons at both Glasgow and Prestwick airports as well as many hours on flight simulator.

I applied to the BA sponsored pilot scheme in 2001 and was successful at the first stage and flown down to Cranebank for testing however 9/11 had just happened and we all know what then happened next in terms of pilot training/recruitment.

Next I applied to Malgus Aviation in 2002 for their sponsored scheme however that turned out to be a bit of a scam. If you know nothing of it just google Malgus.

Unfortunately I was never in a position to pay for flight training and came to the disappointing realisation that my dream job was most likely not going to happen for me however now find that I could realistically afford to fund training to PPL level.

I am also realistic in knowing that making it to airline pilot is beyond me now due to my age however would still like to be able to fly even if just for my own pleasure.

With that in mind I have been looking at training schools. Highland Aviation in Inverness seems the best option in Scotland at about £7k for the PPL however this is a 3+ hour drive from home.

I was also considering taking up gliding at the Scottish Gliding Centre in Kinross. This is about a 90 minute drive from home and would be considerably cheaper to pursue.

I have a stressful job in the emergency services and need to fly to some description to stop me from going insane.

Any thoughts or advice from you good people would be greatly appreciated.

Jazzer.
Delta Echo liked this
By Crash one
#1559935
Welcome.
I would suggest you visit Perth. Speak to Scottish aero club, and ACS flight training.
If you are not aware already the Light Aircraft Association is the cheapest option once you have your licence, part ownership, shares, DIY maintenance, further training, etc. Flying club rental rates are very close to training rates, but, depends on what you decide.
Good luck

As above also.
The NPPL can also do group A as well as microlights.
By FlagUnfurled
#1560017
Jazzar,

I think you need to give some thought to what type of flying you are interested in doing and can afford after getting a PPL. As others have said, there are cheaper licence routes with reduced privileges that may well give you all you need.

I would be very wary about anywhere promising a full EASA PPL for £7,000. I think a budget of £10,000 is more realistic and to cover EVERYTHING and give you some breathing room.

There are quite a few similar threads on here and other forums where people suggest they are too old for an airline job and I've seen loads of replies saying 34 is not too old.
By Crash one
#1560038
Jazzer wrote:What about gliding? Any thoughts?


Gliding is a team sport.
I did it at Portmoak myself, you will learn to fly accurately in order to stay airborne as long as possible.
There is a lot of mucking in, pushing gliders about for hours for relatively little flying time.
You don't just turn up, fly and go home.
Nothing wrong with that, I enjoyed it myself, depends how you like it, whether you can afford the time, usually an all day thing for about an hour in the air if you are lucky.
If you book a three day course you will be part of a team of maybe six, sharing the work etc.
Give it a go.
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By GolfHotel
#1560041
Have you considered going abroad to get your licence?

Not the best idea often. But 3 hrs driving for the inevitable cancelled lessons will be no joke.
By Jazzer
#1560095
I considered going abroad however with a very young family at home I think that's a no go.

Had confirmation from Highland Aviation, £6899 for 45 hrs, all landing fees and written exams. Unfortunately it requires a one off payment.

Flying is so expensive! And that's just to get the licence never mind paying to fly once qualified.
By FlagUnfurled
#1560096
Virtually nobody passes in 45 hours. 50-55 is more realistic. To pass in fewer hours you'd need to do it intensively to keep the momentum.

EVERYTHING you read about the subject advises strongly against making one-off, up front payments to any school in any circumstances.

If cost is a concern definitely look into the NPPL or LAPL. Either would allow flight in virtually any aircraft a PPL is likely to fly. You can always upgrade it to a full PPL at a later stage if required. If you go down the NPPL route make sure you complete it before 8th April 2018 to ensure you can still convert to an EASA licence.

I'd suggest you start by looking at costs of joining a syndicate. Loads of adverts show what you can fly for how much monthly and hourly. Will give you an idea of costs moving forward and if you can justify getting your licence based on this.
By vw-dan
#1560098
Jazzer wrote:I considered going abroad however with a very young family at home I think that's a no go.

Had confirmation from Highland Aviation, £6899 for 45 hrs, all landing fees and written exams. Unfortunately it requires a one off payment.

Flying is so expensive! And that's just to get the licence never mind paying to fly once qualified.


It's generally considered a bad idea to pay for any flying upfront - certainly no more cash than you're happy to lose. Aviation can be a volatile business at times, and given it's pretty low margin there's not really much schools can offer you in the way of saving money.

My advice is to just start and start paying as you go - £7-8k is in about the right ballpark, but everyone will have a slightly different experience in terms of hours. What is absolutely true though is that the more frequently you fly the less hours you'll need.

I'm at 58 hours after 2 years and I'm at my skills test stage - my biggest thing was having to stop for months solid in between while I renovated a house and had a kid!
By Cessna57
#1560111
Jazzer wrote:
Flying is so expensive! And that's just to get the licence never mind paying to fly once qualified.


It gets cheaper once qualified, but, you do HAVE to have some disposable income every year to spend on it, or you become either dangerous or illegal.

Consider if you have at least a couple of grand disposable every year once you are qualified.

I pay £60 a month monthly fees, then £70 an hour wet.
That's not unusual. There's cheaper flying than that to be had.

Factor in cash calls though. Do a spreadsheet, and workout whether it's better to rent or be in a group. For me, where I'm based, and what I could rent.

< 20 hours a year = rent
> 20 hours a year = group

It's possible, but plan how you will use your license once you have it. Ongoing is the hardest but, but it's not as expensive as training.
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By Rob P
#1560115
FlagUnfurled wrote:Virtually nobody passes in 45 hours. 50-55 is more realistic. To pass in fewer hours you'd need to do it intensively to keep the momentum.


That is oft quoted in forum circles, but is basically bollox.

If your definition of 'not intensively' is 18 months from trial flight to skills test, it is perfectly doable in around 45 hours flight time, even for a mature student. Most youngsters should be able to walk it..

You are not making it simple for yourself with a lesson every couple of weeks, but the annual cost is a lot lower.

FlagUnfurled wrote:
EVERYTHING you read about the subject advises strongly against making one-off, up front payments to any school in any circumstances.



I have put that in bold for you :wink:


Rob P
By Crash one
#1560128
As has been said, please do not pay up front, far too many people have lost a lot of cash doing that.
Also these clubs/schools that offer 45 hours at some fixed price. Yes this sounds attractive, but although the legal minimum number of hours required is 45, very, very few pass in that time. Usually kids in their teens.
The licence will be issued when the examiner, on the advice from the instructors, considers you good enough to pass.
Buying the books, most of those can be obtained off eBay second hand, except Air law which changes regularly with the weather :D .
Yes it is expensive to get the licence, but there are several ways to reduce flying costs after that. The renting of school aircraft is the most expensive but less commitment.
You will also be expected to be back on time, their own rules on currency/recentcy of flying etc.
Joining the LAA or the BMAA, and buying a share are the cheaper options.

Check the airfield notice boards.
LAA type of aircraft, own maintenance signed off by a qualified grown up. £16K plus or minus several £K. Sole ownership.
Hangar fees, £100 upwards per month on a farm strip.
Day to day running. 18 litres per hour for fuel. + oil + landing fees + coffee and burgers.

It can be very expensive or quite affordable.
I'm doing it on a pension, those costs are mine, others may not be so lucky, or even luckier :D
Seems like you are in the Stirling area, send me a PM, decent weather, and I'll let you see what some of it is all about :thumleft: