[Paul_Sengupta]

suffer the electronic radio interference.

Get an Anker charger.

How a tool works or how to use the tool effectively. Lets dispense with the nit picking please.

It's not nit picking though. Leia's point was that people *do* use the tool effectively...they follow the instructions and come out with the numbers they need. But they're not thinking about the process behind how the tools works and how it comes out with the answer it does.

[Crash one]

I think we are pretty much in agreement here.

Yes, the only points of disagreement I see are what we mean by "work it out on paper" and how we think GPS is being used.

Ok so the wizzwheel is antiquated, but it is reasonably accurate and requires the right information to give the right answer.

That's a bug not a feature...

Eyeballs on chart and a guess are less likely to apply drift back to front, ir iut by a factor of ten, than blindly plugging them into a whizzwheel is. Especially if, like most PPL students today, you don't fully understand what it's doing.

Personally I think the term, GPS navigation, is a bit of a misnomer. It isn't navigation, it's line following.

Certainly if people just pick it up not having been taught a sensible method than can happen. Which is why it does need to be in the syllabus by my reasoning.

Eyeballs on chart paragraph:-
This is what I mean. If you don't understand that the wind blows you downwind and you blindly put your heading line the wrong side, you don't know how it works or how to use it.
If you leave the tool alone you will only be out by half as much as if you use it and get it wrong!
Or , correctly as Leiafee says look at the chart.
And if you pee into a bed of nettles, be aware of the wind!!

As for GPS I'm afraid I did just pick it up and played with it, it was quite intuitive, I didn't find it difficult, I can plot the route, get the plog, notams etc. Without being taught by anyone. What am I missing?
What am I doing wrong?
Please explain how that makes it.....Sheesh!

This is like trying to knit fog!

[Paul_Sengupta]

I think maybe I should read my GPS manual at some point.

Hmm.

Nah.

[leiafee]

Okay, given that the course length is finite and teaching more of one thing means less of another. Here's one question to disperse the fog...

Is learning the whizzwheel more useful than learning how to make better mental approximations?

For my money the answer is a clear "no" for the following reasons

1 - the wind is never exactly as forecast so you'll have to approximate in the air anyway (or let your GPS do so)

2 - you probably can't fly to the same level of accuracy you can calculate to on the whizzwheel anyway

3 - it's the mental model that's important not the physical tool and approximations done in your head prove you "get it" more convincingly than following the physical algorithm of plugging in numbers and turning dials the way you've memorised. Makes it eaier for the person teaching you to know whether you understand or have learned by rote.

[flybymike]

Is there a pilot anywhere who has actually used a whiz wheel after qualifying?

[Crash one]

No. For the same reasons,
Thank the Lord for that.

[Crash one]

I think maybe I should read my GPS manual at some point.

Hmm.

Nah.

I've just had a look at mine, didn't learn anything I didn't know already.

[malcolmfrost]

This is very reminiscent of the BSAC vs PADI dichotomy in sport diving. I met my wife 30 odd years ago doing a BSAC course. It involved lots of pool work, lots of complicated decompression calculations and took months. It culminated in a practical test in the English Channel in November, which required you to rescue a fully kitted diver without dropping any weight. My wife couldn't do it, so gave up.
PADI, by contrast is focussed on getting you safe, for resort diving, and I completed it in 3 days, including 4 dives. All we want to do is look at fish at relatively small depths, not weld on a N Sea oil rig!
People who want to fly SEP really don't need to know how to work out the TAS using a whizz wheel, they want to go flying safely.
Concentrate on how to use the tools we have now effectively not the ones from WW 2, and train for contingencies.

[Crash one]

Keep the aircraft icon on the line, simple. It tells you the compass heading, if you are remotely interested

It won't. GPS knows only track, compass knows only heading. If you get the track correct then read off the compass, you can then maintain that compass heading, assuming the wind doesn't change.

Paul.
Had a rethink/look.
Runway HD the plotted line can be set up in settings (route) to display either track or wind corrected compass heading. Also either distance or time.
I've got mine set to heading and time. Has been for a while, forgot.
The bottom (side view) also gives track, bearing, time to waypoint.
That way if it's about to go pop the information is there without checking compasses etc.
What it does when you wander off the line I can't remember, I just keep an eye on where the line is and wander back as required.

Perhaps the Freda check should include, check GPS battery state

[PaulB]

Perhaps the Freda check should include, check GPS battery state

.... and pre-flight planning should include ensuring that battery state is adequate and that you have a suitable back up navigation option.

(We can now spend weeks arguing about whether another GPS is an adequate back up.)

[GolfHotel]

Is there a pilot anywhere who has actually used a whiz wheel after qualifying?

Not only have I used one, I even bought a new one the other day.

Not in the real world of course. But I had to get one for the TK for the CBIR. What a waste of time and money!

Anyone want to buy a nearly new, hardly used whizz wheel in few months? Hopefuly this time, after I have done the IR, I will never have to use one again.

[Crash one]

.... and pre-flight planning should include ensuring that battery state is adequate and that you have a suitable back up navigation option.

(We can now spend weeks arguing about whether another GPS is an adequate back up.)

The "suitable backup navigation option" is already in place, it consists of the "pre programmed educated guesstimation capability". Able to function completely independently of wizzwheels batteries or iPads.

[Paul_Sengupta]

"suitable backup navigation option"

"There's Didcot power station."

[malcolmfrost]

Runway HD the plotted line can be set up in settings (route) to display either track or wind corrected compass heading.

I doubt if it is "real" heading as there is no input from the aircraft system, but rather based on the forecast wind. GPS only outputs track and groundspeed.
BTW Avdroid does a very good whizzwheel and lots more besides. Free from the Play Store.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.slacksoft.avdroid_free&hl=en

[Crash one]

Just as "real" as a wizzwheel produced heading, using forecast winds etc.
Or is this GPS stuff just a toy gimmick?