Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

By Will1v
#1529086
Good morning everyone,

I've been thinking of taking my PPL for ages now and I might be ready to take the plunge.
However, budget is a bit of an issue and I'm trying to find ways to take the cost down a bit.

I've read that some suggested going for the NPPL and upgrade later on, I'll have to look into this.

But since I'm planning on flying a fair bit in France as I spend quite a bit of holiday there, I was wondering whether I could register for my PPL in England and fly in London but also log some flying time towards the 45(+) hours required. It would make sense to have a bit of my learning in France if I'm going to fly there regularly and it would also help with the cost.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

William
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1529093
I think contrary to the early efforts of the JAA for harmonisation, I believe EASA has made this a bit more difficult - I think you need to be registered at one particular training facility where your records are kept. It's probably possible to make it work if you have the agreement of the two training organisations.

For keeping costs down if you were to do everything on this side of the channel, for, I believe, about another year, it's possible to get your microlight NPPL then upgrade that to NPPL SSEA then upgrade that to LAPL or EASA PPL. But that route may be closed off next year.
By Will1v
#1529132
Thanks Paul.

I think contrary to the early efforts of the JAA for harmonisation, I believe EASA has made this a bit more difficult


I'm not very familiar with all those acronyms, I'll try to read about them tonight to understand what you mean :)

For keeping costs down if you were to do everything on this side of the channel, for, I believe, about another year, it's possible to get your microlight NPPL then upgrade that to NPPL SSEA then upgrade that to LAPL or EASA PPL


I'm not going anywhere for the time being so doing it over year shouldn't be much of a problem. Do you reckon the whole Microlight NPPL => NPPL SSEA => LAPL/EASA PPL could be done within a year?

But that route may be closed off next year.

Because of Brexit you mean? Or is there some change coming up regardless?

Thanks for your help,
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1529278
Will1v wrote:I'm not very familiar with all those acronyms, I'll try to read about them tonight to understand what you mean :)


EASA are the European regulator and licence issuer. They're gradually taking over from the national administrators such as our CAA. There have been various delays and derogations to ease the transition but some of them are running out. The JAA was the predecessor of EASA. They started issuing Europe wide licenses back in 2000 or so.

Will1v wrote:Do you reckon the whole Microlight NPPL => NPPL SSEA => LAPL/EASA PPL could be done within a year?


It very much depends on three things. Time, money and weather! If you're flexible with your time in that you can fly when the weather is good, plus you have savings you can splurge on to fly whenever the weather allows you, then yes. If you just amble along with one lesson a week, half of which will be cancelled because of the weather, then no, probably not.

Will1v wrote:Because of Brexit you mean? Or is there some change coming up regardless?


No, it's happening regardless. It may be extended, but the way things work, they'll tell you two days before it expires. I wouldn't count on it being extended.

I thought others would answer here, others know more than I do, including links to the relevant references.
By Will1v
#1529306
Thanks very much for your help Paul_Sengupta, I really appreciate.

I am not very flexible, no; during the week is pretty much impossible for me.
I've also started looking at flying schools around London, without a car it seems the closest would be 1h30 from home (must be particularly frustrating to do a 3h round trip if you can't fly in the end because of weather!). Not easy to get going when you live in London. :(

But then if it has to take more than a year, fair enough. I can afford to take my time and go for the "Microlight NPPL => NPPL SSEA => LAPL/EASA PPL" option if it can help reduce the cost.
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By Morten
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1529307
I'd suggest you speak to your potential UK school and put such a 'shared' scheme to them from day 1. If they are on-side and you find a suitable instructor in France for the 'other half' of the lessons, there may be no real reason it shouldn't be workable.
But it may not save you much money. E.g. if you did 20 completely equivalent hours in France, your UK school would need to feel confident about your abilities, which would take them another couple of hours. Then, there's the changing of instructor and potentially aircraft type, RT standards etc. which may mean that you are likely to spend more hours overall, thereby offsetting any benefits from the lower hourly rate.

Money aside, it it sounds like fun to me - what could be better than to do some flying during your holidays, learning some different areas, another attitude to GA and potentially another aircraft type. :thumleft:

Just my 2c - I know even less than Paul :-).

Morten

BTW:
> (must be particularly frustrating to do a 3h round trip if you can't fly in the end because of weather!)
You do normally know whether you will be able to fly or not before you leave home :-) Too often, you already know a day or 2 before that you won't be able to fly :(
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By RichardPearse
#1529400
You can train towards your NPPL(M) in France, and also exercise the privileges of (i.e. fly on) the licence there. There are a few British-run microlight schools in France who train to the British syllabus. I've been to Wanafly Airsports in Haute-Vienne; happy to answer questions via PM.

Whether training in France is a budget-friendly option probably depends on how close the various schools are to your normal French stomping ground. Conditions in France are better too so you're more likely to get a decent chunk of flying done in a short/predetermined time. That said they're still not totally reliable, which is a bit of a pain if you've taken time off work to go to France for a block of flying, but is at least good patience training for when you come back to the UK :D

Overall, if you want to do bimbling and limited two-up touring on a budget in both the UK and France, the NPPL(M) will get you a long way for (relatively!) low cost.

Will1v wrote:must be particularly frustrating to do a 3h round trip if you can't fly in the end because of weather!


If you want to commit aviation in the UK, you'd better get used to frustrations of this sort :wink:
By Will1v
#1529810
Thanks everyone for your help on this.
I've contacted a couple of flying schools in France, one of which replied saying you had to do all your training in one school, not split between two schools (the other never replied).

I'll try to look into the options you've suggested over the weekend, but things aren't looking too good for me... I really hope I won't have to wait for another few years before I can finally fly :(
By James33
#1529855
I know a few instructors who could do you an intensive PPL course in France (taught in English).

Some French is useful for uncontrolled airport circuit calls.
By James33
#1531734
Any hours you do with an EASA instructor in the correct type will count for the minimum time required for the PPL (25 with an instructor and 10 solo).

The only issue is the solo hours. To reach solo standard you need a fair bit of time on the same aicraft type, and to do that, you need to stay in one place long enough to do it.

That said, once solo standard has been reached and you are "freed" to fly solo in a particular club, there's nothing to stop you doing other hours elsewhere.

Just bear in mind that flying in the UK can be different to France and vice versa.

In my case, I did :

Club 1 (France)
10 hours dual on DA20, first solo circuit, and about an hour of solo consolidation (before the school went bust)!

Club 2 (UK)
2 hours dual navigation in a PA28
1 hour of circuits in a C152

Club 3 (France)
23 hours dual on DR400,

150nm solo flight.

Various other solo flights

Flight test

All counted for the final hours when I did my exam.

It pains me to say it, but I found that in the UK, the instructors had a profoundly disinterested attitude when I just popped in to do the odd hour here or there. I think you need time to build up a rapport with your instructor.

I also found UK flight schools very intimidating compared to the French club scene I "grew up" in - i.e. instructors strutting around in uniforms, high-vis everywhere, acronyms for everything from pre-flight to flushing the loo.

That said, it was very interesting from a procedural point of view, and some of the radio particularly I now find useful when touring in the UK.

Perhaps I'm biased, but I can honestly say that the French aeroclub system is really fantastic, and makes flying accessible for a great many young people.
By James33
#1531883
I actually thought the hazel check was to make sure your nuts were in the right position.
By Will1v
#1532494
Thanks for the great France v UK feedback, James33! Very interesting.

I think that because I live in London I'll have to take most of my training here in the UK. The plan I have in mind at the moment is to try to pass my "Brevet de Base" in France during an intensive week (if possible) and then take it from there in London for the PPL. With perhaps some solo flying in France again.

I'm trying to figure out whether that's doable.
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