[BirdsEyeView]

Wednesday I went for my first accompanied XC in the Super Cub, as our regular C172 was away getting its annual. Rather than sit at home and wishing I was up there, I was happy to get in the air with whatever was available.

I love the Super Cub as it's real stick & rudder flying. However it still reminds me of agricultural flying and imagine myself crop spraying in similar - cue for Pawnee stories. The break from circuits especially as these last two weeks we've had quite severe xwinds (for me) 15 Kts at almost right angles and gusts up to 20+. Our 800m single grass strip runway is 06/24 so it's take it or leave it - and without my instructor, I would definitely leave it.

But here was an opportunity to have a break and have some fun with my instructor safely in the back seat. So I planned a small x-crountry to a nearby club strip in Class G airspace and briefed an overhead join.

So this was to be an all-round first. It was also my first time communicating with our local MATZ for basic service on the outward leg and upon return requesting a direct MATZ penetration for a long final to home base. Now as I don't normally fly the Super Cub and therefore fully confident with the dark arts of tail-dragger control I was quite happy to let my instructor do the back taxis and taxing in general. I'm fine when I have good airflow and speed over the air-frame and rudder but those heal brakes are a strange uncontrollable beast to me at this stage.

We rotate nicely and climb to 800 feet and now it's time to contact our RAF Zone. Well I knew what to expect in terms of phraseology as we've hit the MATZ quite a few times, but why is it these guys speak as though they have a sock in their mouth? He sounded muffled and I really do think his microphone was bunged up with fluff and aging cotton wool of medieval proportions .

My first response to his query which in hindsight was revealed to be "state your intentions", when I was expecting "pass your message" was to say "say again and slower". He duly complied and I was just able to make sense of the QNH quoted and reset the transponder correctly and keep the aircraft heading and altitude. My "what did he say" to my instructor was warmly received as my instructor thought I did well to ask the ATC to repeat in my very first exchange.

I proceeded on course for about 10 nm at 1500 feet in Class G airspace and completed my first 2000 feet overhead join at the other (licensed) field and into circuit, and flew to about 10 feet of a x-wind land before power-on for an intended go-around and departure out of the circuit. I felt it was quite an achievement as throughout my instructor lay silent in the back. The AG at the visiting field were quite intelligible and easy to understand in comparison to my previous experience.

On the way back I rehearsed my comms a couple of times but I was still quite nervous and lapsed into verbosity adding in snippets of information, but flying and talking to ATC does appear to soak up the brain power at my stage. My instructor seemingly speaks the MATZ ATC dialect and was able to interpret for me.

Do any other student pilots here have similar issues understanding what is being said to them over the R/T from certain ATCs? Do some ATCs appear to communicate using a wet piece of string and a tin can for comms?

[Cessna57]

Which MATZ?

Wattisham sometimes play "all RT will be as fast as humanely possible"

I just keep reading back the bits I understand and saying "say again" for any bits I don't.

You can say "say again QFE" or "say again squawk" etc.

I have in the past had to go through each bit one at a time, some controllers seem to prefer that rather than slowing down at all.

[Morten]

Good on you for asking say again
A combination of not hearing what you're expecting and the sock in mouth issue can throw you in the beginning and then you struggle to catch up.
Another thing you can say is 'readability 2' (or 1...) - it may prompt them to spit out the sandwich they're half-way through or move closer to the mike.
And, finally, even though a fresh student tends to be close to standard - or at least is aware of what the standard should be... and even though I'm loathe to say it, not all ATSOs are always 100% compliant with standard RT, also compounding the issue.

However, in general, RT is one of those things which does becomes second nature after a while. By virtue of you hearing more of it on your XCs (involving not just yourself but also other aircraft), by virtue of your overall workload decreasing as you become more adept at the various piloting skills and last but not least you become more relaxed about it

Asking to say again is a much better thing than pretending to have heard and understood. Adding verbosity (nice phrase!) is also better than not getting your message across.

> Do any other student pilots here have similar issues understanding what is being said to them
Headset not required - when I was married this sort of thing happened constantly - or so I was told ...

> Do some ATCs appear to communicate using a wet piece of string and a tin can for comms?
Readability 1. Say again.

Morten

[Irv Lee]

There used to be a problem with military transmissions being muffled, far worse if a higher voiced controller like a lady. Keef would have explained all this. (The muffled bit, not why women have higher voices)

[davelee212]

I talk to Lakenheath fairly frequently (run by the US) and they do their R/T a bit different which threw me the first couple of times. Their response to a request for a transit is usually just to provide a squawk. Once they've got you an radar, they confirm your position and give you a basic service.

There tends to be no request "pass your message" so I proceed as if they had so I can confirm the position they gave, provide my routing, re-state that I want a MATZ penetration. They're usually really helpful and basically provide a traffic service regardless of whether you ask for it.

Dave

[nkt2000]

The first time I did a MATZ transit I was almost (but not quite) caught out by the terminology used. This was perfectly standard but I was given an overhead transit at height 2500 feet. Note the use of the term "height". That almost caught me out as I tend to use QNH all the time, rather than switch to QFE at airfields, and make an allowance for the airfield elevation. Fortunately I realised what he was saying and adjusted one of the altimeters accordingly.

[Rob P]

Lakenheath sign off is almost invariably:

"Golfx-raybravoyouareoutsidemyzonesquawkseventhousandfrequencychangeapproved"

Love 'em to bits. They don't adhere to strange UK concepts and see radar-derived traffic information as part of their basic service.

Rob P

[flybymike]

. They don't adhere to strange UK concepts and see radar-derived traffic information as part of their basic service.

Rob P

Don't tell TDM he'll go bonkers.

[Rob P]

No, it's OK.

They are American and offer a basic service, not a Basic Service.

Besides, TDM's hitmen can't make it past the (heavily-armed) guardhouse.

Rob P

[BirdsEyeView]

Thanks everyone - I'm encouraged to read others' experiences. "Readability 2 say again..." as suggested is on my list to use if needed.

Went out again on Tuesday in the Super Cub as the C172 was still away. Our local MATZ had gone off duty (probably heard I was coming), so I was thwarted, but I did a nice 20 mile trip skirting around a gliding site with RT announcement of my intentions and into my destination airfield a few miles away for an overhead join and a cup of tea. It was a good RT comms and simple navigation lesson and a nice break from flying around an airfield nailing that approach.

Our C172 is back next week so its back to circuits and my expected solo in about 2 weeks. Just need to do that pesky Air Law exam

[The Bassman]

My first experience with a MATZ didn't go well. It was my second solo Nav, routing over Shawbury. Flying the route previously with my instructor, the airfield's radio had been unmanned; but there was a great deal of traffic when I came to do it solo a couple of days later.....

So, having failed to get a radio call in for the first attempts (so many other pilots were quicker on the PTT than me), I finally got through - Shawbury then gave me the fastest 20 words I've ever heard, so I asked for a slow repeat: result - no better! After three attempts (all using prefix "student pilot"), I had to reply "unintelligible", which I don't think went down well at all!

At this point, noting that I'd somewhat lost my heading, I remembered the "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" rule & got on with flying he plane. In time, I did manage to get my final message about leaving the frequency acknowledged, but I could hear some annoyance in the voice.

My fault probably, and I'll do better next time, but I wasn't impressed - confusing students, and wasting time (when busy) by having to repeat, didn't strike me as helping anybody. Had a natter with my FI on landing - got the impression that my experience was quite common - is it?

[PeteSpencer]

RAF transmissions are renowned for being muffled: Brize being the biggest offender. Wattisham has improved in the last few years.

The cousins at LKH are unerringly helpful though do speak lightning fast especially around 11.00am when the first wave of rednecks in their F15s are coming back from playtime over the north sea.....
They will also dump you as soon as you cross out of the MATZ boundary "radarserviceterminatedfrequencychangeapprovedhaveanicedayy'all"

Another LKH top tip : if they want to vector you round the back of an AWACS (callsign NATO xxx)on approach to MLD give it as wide a berth as you can, the wake turbulence is murderous.
,

[adhawkins]

RAF transmissions are renowned for being muffled: Brize being the biggest offender. Wattisham has improved in the last few years.

I keep reading this, but since I started my training in 2007 (at RAF Brize Norton as it happens) I've spoken to a Brize Controller on probably 75% of my flights, and never had an issue understanding them.

Perhaps my brain has just decided that this is 'normal' and filtered it out somehow?

Andy

[Capt Edmund]

This RT is, as so often, a case of getting used to it. Unfortunately as they tend to talk quickly, often aren't open at weekends, and MATZs are few and far between that's easier said than done.

BEV,

From what you've said we fly from the same place. Give me a nod if you want to be a passenger at some point, although the stn always seem shut when I fly! I've got an empty seat 0900 tomorrow if you're about.

[PeteSpencer]

RAF transmissions are renowned for being muffled: Brize being the biggest offender. Wattisham has improved in the last few years.

I keep reading this, but since I started my training in 2007 (at RAF Brize Norton as it happens) I've spoken to a Brize Controller on probably 75% of my flights, and never had an issue understanding them.

Perhaps my brain has just decided that this is 'normal' and filtered it out somehow?

Andy

The lousy quality of Brize was R/T brought home to me forcefully a year or so back when , on a trip from E Angular to Kemble I had occasion to ask to go through Brize Zone:
I spoke initially to a female ATCer and couldn't make out what she was saying to the extent that she got quite ratty with my constant requests to 'repeat your message'.
I changed boxes: No joy:
Then a male came on: just as bad and I was beginning to think my radios were duff.
I think they were glad to hand me off to Kemble:
Guess what? Instant crystal clear fully comprehensible transmissions from Kemble..
QED