[Lee Savell]

Thank you all for the helpful replies.

So here is what I'm going to do.....

1) I'm going to read all checks before and in flight aloud from now on in.

2) I'm going to give my instructor a call tomorrow and have a reflective chat, she deserves my feedback if anything else, whilst I've not named names, I do feel a bit guilty having a moan here and not raising my thoughts with her.

3) Im going to see if I can get some additional passenger seat experience so I can spend some time observing.

4) I'm going to alternate lessons I.e. Lesson, Revision, Lesson, Revision and so on. I just think I've sped through the syllabus a bit fast without cementing the basics. Yes this might double my hours for a while, but I'm not in any rush.

[Charles Hunt]

Doesn't sound like a good instructor. Get a new one.

Only got this far in the thread, and Paul has it in one.

That was not a lesson.

A lesson is 20- 30 mins before going through what is to be done, 1 hr flight time, then 10-15 minute de-brief.

Change now.

[cockney steve]

At the risk of thread derailment......
Flyer, summer 2016, PP79, top left
"becoming a paid flying instructor requires only a PPL"........
(ok, it's teaching LAPL only.) course fee £6495
Hardly "uninformed opinion."
Yep! I subscribe to the mag, I read it! (Won't the advertisers be pleased to know their advert is read )

When learning to drive a car, AIUI, it's now incorporating a video sequence, where the Stude has to identify potential hazards whilst "driving" the route....On the actual road-test, the emphasis is on controlling the vehicle, not yattering!
If you take the IAM driving-test, then you are expected to give a running commentary ro your examiner,as you proceed.

Higher expected skill-level, spare mental capacity commentary well within a competent candidate's ability to deliver both , safely.
Best practice is fine, in an appropriate context , I never said otherwise. Ball,. not, player. out.

[Spooky]

I thought it required a minimum of 200 hours with 150 as PIC?

[Rob P]

Flying is probably the only thing I do now that will kill me in under a minute if I get it wrong.

Don't ever use her sister's name when having sex with your wife.

[FlightDek]

Flying is probably the only thing I do now that will kill me in under a minute if I get it wrong.

Don't ever use her sister's name when having sex with your wife.

Her brother's name would be even worse

Dek

[Cessna57]

Flying is probably the only thing I do now that will kill me in under a minute if I get it wrong.

Don't ever use her sister's name when having sex with your wife.

When I was younger we used to call that "Rodeo sex".

Say the wrong name and see how long you could stay on for

[cjm_wales]

Interesting discussion on checklists...

I will verbally go through the list even if I'm on my own. But I have them memorized - is this a bad idea? Would this create the wrong impression if I was looking to hire & having a checkride?

The main ones (for the C42):
CHIFFTWAP
FREDA - en route
HASELL (rarely!)
TWASFUN - downwind for landing

I do have the printed checklists in my kneeboard anyway, I just find that using the memorized items (which have been drilled into me) is smoother & keeps my attention out of the window.

I'm keen to know how others do it.

[alexbrett2]

For routine checks in the air (e.g. FREDA, downwind etc) I do them from memory, as it'd be too much of a distraction getting a checklist out.

For routine checks on the ground, I always use the checklist, keeping a finger where I've got to, as it makes it far less likely to miss something (though not impossible).

For emergencies in the air, I've memorised the immediate actions where appropriate (the obvious one being engine failure), but not the full checklists for less 'urgent' issues (e.g. I fly a retractable, and should I have a gear issue I'd climb to a safe altitude and then get the checklist out to troubleshoot).

While on the subject of checks, I'd recommend reading Atul Gawande's "The Checklist Manifesto" - it's a surprisingly interesting read for what would seem at first glance to be a bit of a boring topic, and highlights lots of human factors points etc.

[riverrock]

Absolutely. For GA in the air, anything checklist like should be memorised. There are a few variants around, which cover all the standard aircraft types (so you can remember one list and skip the bits that don't apply to the current aircraft, such as primer locked...). Mnemonics makes sure you don't miss things.

For stuff on the ground - there are multiple schools of thought, so do what your instructor says. If using a paper checklist, you have to be diligent in actually doing every item. Keeping a finger on each line till it is complete is useful. Confirmation bias (you see something as you expect to see if rather than actually checking it) is hard to avoid.

There is another school of thought (but as I say - do what your instructor says), which involves a flow, and you do everything required at each stage of the flow by logically going over everything, in a clockwise manner, round the cockpit.
So before you turn anything on, you look at all the instruments to make sure they are as expected (zero a G-Meter, set expected altitude). Continue round the cockpit to doors (check locked), then central console - check trim freedom and set position, Set fuel selector freedom, set position. Check throttle freedom, carb heat freedom, set position, seat belts; controls free; brakes set.
Then turn on power to move to the next stage in the flow.
Then go round cockpit again making sure all is as it should be (electrict instruments alive, fuel reading and correct, starter warning light, radios off)
Then before start
Prime; check brakes again, anti-col on, "Clear prop"
Then start
Starter warning off, brakes holding, T&P green...
... etc.

This means you can keep the same pattern when jumping between aircraft, although it does require you to know the aircraft (and not just blindly follow the checklist). The result is the same.

If you are being prepared for an airline career you are more likely to be taught to use a checklist, as future aircraft will be more complex, so checking everything each time isn't practical.

[cjm_wales]

That's the thing - I don't use written checklists at all, even on the ground, relying purely on the nmemomics (with exceptions for DI & pre-flight checks).

But the plane I fly is pretty simple. Pre start up is STAMP:

Security & parking brake
Throttle (full and free movement then closed),
Area (all clear for start)
Master & Mags,
(shout clear prop!)
Press starter

...and then it's a case of seeing oil pressure, the master caution light going out, and turning on comms.

I doubt I'll ever set foot in the cockpit of an airliner but I still want to conduct myself in a professional manner.

[malcolmfrost]

Just out of interest, the modern Boeing method is a procedure, done from memory, followed by a written/electronic checklist to check it's all been done.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thoughts from me as a part time instructor who knows both aircraft types.

The instructor was being very unprofessional - lack of a proper brief and debrief, taking control for reasons other than immediate safety or to create talking space, failure to create a good learning environment.

Reasons - there are only three really.

(1) Personal / external issues.
(2) Student is being so utterly awful the instructor couldn't deal with them.
(3) They're not a very good instructor.

I tend to think (1), as they apparently were fine previously. I think the idea of making time for a chat with the instructor is a really good idea, and go open minded to the next lesson.

And if that goes equally badly - either change school, or change instructor within the school. The reasons for this are many and obvious.


The PPL skill test requirement does require checks out loud, and personally I always prefer to do them that way also as any other pilot in the aeroplane (or my subconscious!) then finds it easier to monitor what I'm doing. But I'd just politely remind a low hour student of that, not jump down their throat about that.


G

[Sharpie]

I think it is a good idea when you are under training to call out what you are doing, as an instructor can sometimes misunderstand what you are doing.
I remember when I was training my instructor once chastised me for using the throttle on landing to increase the speed of the aircraft. In fact I was trying to gain height from a low approach but there you go ..

[Danny]

Any updates Lee? Did you ever speak to your instructor about the lesson?