Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

Moderator: AndyR

  • 1
  • 28
  • 29
  • 30
  • 31
  • 32
  • 45
User avatar
By tr7v8
#1853056
@T6Harvard
Love cows on runway! Best go round was when I made a total fist of the landing, too high & fast & banged the throttle open myself without being prompted to get over my embarrassment.
Been taught BUMFICHH yet, that's down wind leg. Brakes, Undercarriage, Mixture (rich), Fuel (ample & correct tanks), Instruments (DI & Compass), carb heat (not relevant for me as its fuel injected) Hatch & Harnesses secure.
T6Harvard, editmonkey liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
#1853061
Oh yes, I don't like to boast but the word 'good' has been associated with my airborne checks :mrgreen: , esp now I have carb heat as the first thing in the FREDA sequence. On occasion it has been my saving grace :lol:

Looking forward to tomorrow.
Fellsteruk, tr7v8 liked this
By t1m80
#1853210
tr7v8 wrote:Well yet another lesson under my belt. ......
So now 22 lessons & 22 hours 20mins in.


Ah, sorry I missed you. Took CW out for an hours bimble in the morning. Sounds like things are progressing well for you though. Nice one! It's good that IO is back in business though.
tr7v8 liked this
User avatar
By tr7v8
#1853237
t1m80 wrote:
tr7v8 wrote:Well yet another lesson under my belt. ......
So now 22 lessons & 22 hours 20mins in.


Ah, sorry I missed you. Took CW out for an hours bimble in the morning. Sounds like things are progressing well for you though. Nice one! It's good that IO is back in business though.

I normally do 12:00 on a Tuesday & 16:00 on a Saturday. All change on the 26/6 as no instructors for 16:00 so it'll be 10:00 So if you're around say hello to Jim.
Yup glad IO is back online.
t1m80 liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
#1853599
Ah, well, Wednesday's lesson was pretty dire flying. Horrid aircraft played a minor role but I was behind the whole time.

My Instructor ended up saying 'We'll just break the circuit down into bits again and get some of it to stick'  :roll:    ​Of course there is no way to do that really - It's all or nothing, isn't it?

I flew better the first time I flew the circuit!

As an example -
Having sorted the '2 stages of flap all at once' on Base, I later removed 2 stages all at once on climbout (at 300', while holding the nose up, so on this occasion not a disaster but.....).  The rest of the lesson was nearly as bad. 

The best I can say was 2 or 3 decent approaches and a decent very low go-round.
Oh, and a REAL forced go-round -see below.

​Even my assisted landing was 90% Instructor because by that point I was clearly having an 'off day'.

I felt like the toddler who is running down a hill, barely in control, and onlookers wonder whether they'll fall over or make it to the bottom by luck not judgement.

So I'll gloss over the majority of it to save you my angst.

Anyway, there was a great learning moment thanks to another pilot in the vicinity. 

As I turned Base for the fourth time I was eyes out for anyone cutting in from the right on a long final (see last week!), then, as I looked straight ahead I spotted another aircraft. 12 O'clock, level!  :shock: Definitely pointing our way. :shock:
We were a mirror image, either side of Final.

I announced to my Instructor who calmly says, 'I don't know what he's doing there.'  A second or 2 pass and we make a gentle right turn, as protocol dictates.  We watch the opposition turn right, descend and then announce Landing.  All within the ATZ of course.

So, it seems, they probably flew a righthand circuit (although who knows), failed to announce Downwind, or any intentions, until decision height and probably didn't even see us.  Consequently I did a real forced go-round as they taxi'd off the runway.
I forgot to ask whether this would be raised with the PIC.

It did prove the diagrams right, in that they appeared to hang in the air, not getting any closer :pale:

I have 2 lessons before a week off so I need to shape up next week. My plan is to try and forget this horror show and go back on Monday as if I was born to fly. It's not that hard, and in my head I can do it just fine :lol:
User avatar
By Fellsteruk
#1853610
I know how hard lessons like this can knock your confidence it’s not that long ago I was having similar but it’s part of the journey and you will get better and more confident, just stick at it.

You’ve got the right attitude but don’t forget circuits and landing are the most challenging part. Good go around and a few good approaches that’s great in itself.

This made me laugh though : 'I don't know what he's doing there.'

I love how calm instructors can be when faced with what I always feel like life n death. I was watching a guy the other week fly in front of me left to right, I had right of way but with his speed I was like it’s fine I’ll pass behind him then all of a sudden he turns straight at me I was like what the... banked right, my instructor simple said “well he’s not looking where’s he going...let’s get a traffic service shall we” lol

Don’t forget if ex12,13 is wearing you down ask to do something new and different for a lesson and then come back I go well miffed with the circuit a few times and this helped me
T6Harvard, TopCat liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
#1853611
Sound advice, thanks @Fellsteruk . It's frustrating and I felt embarrassed. You can tell how bad it was, my usually very forthright Instructor gave the sort of sympathetic-kind debrief that is usually reserved for the hopeless case :roll:

Oh, well, worse things happen. I am genuinely hoping the weather is OK for flying on Monday :mrgreen:
User avatar
By Miscellaneous
#1853617
You're on track @T6Harvard, truth is your learning experience would be lacking if you just sailed on through. Maybe you're taking it badly because you had it relatively easy in the early lessons. :wink:
T6Harvard liked this
User avatar
By Duncan M
#1853631
A difficult read, never nice to hear tales of a bad day at the office.
Perhaps with the knowledge now of performing the wrong actions (raising flap too early)
and the consequences, you will be much more aware of the correct actions.
When things go to plan and there are no problems there is also little extra to be learned. Once things go wrong, there is more of a learning opportunity. Look upon this bad day as a
broadening of your flying experience.
Your instructor should be the source of your guidance but I offer a couple of thoughts.
Rather than seeing the circuit as a list of separate events with check lists to complete before moving to next phase, try to think what you are asking the aircraft to do as you fly the circuit.
For example, using flap. Flap increases the lift of the wing for a given airspeed. Slowing the
aircraft on base/final needs flap to stop the aircraft descending too quickly at the reduced airspeed. Thinking through the phases of flight and what state the aircraft needs to be in to achieve it helps with understanding what is required rather than just reading a checklist.
Understanding what is required will help in making the right decisions especially when faced with unusual or emergency situations.
Remember, if you could do everything perfectly, you are wasting your money on instruction!
Your instructor is there to keep you safe whilst you teach yourself how to fly :lol:
T6Harvard liked this
User avatar
By Wicksay
#1853641
Hi Harvard, i’m playing catchup. So no better place to start than Your thread. I was excited to read you are getting in two lessons a week! No two lessons the same. My first proper lesson back l was so far behind the day! Arrived late, forgot my check list, and was always behind after that. On the plus side our track took us into some pretty yuk weather. My instructor is completely nonchalant "If you can see through its ok!" " But you'd change course if you're flying" on the upside of being behind the aircraft l was now on instruments and felt pretty relaxed. Kept attitude and course and found my target (brands hatch via Wrotham Mast). I guess the way I look at it is; we landed and I did at least one thing well and learn't a couple of very useful lessons!!! :-).

Keep on flying!
By TopCat
#1853864
T6Harvard wrote:As an example -
Having sorted the '2 stages of flap all at once' on Base, I later removed 2 stages all at once on climbout (at 300', while holding the nose up, so on this occasion not a disaster but.....).  The rest of the lesson was nearly as bad. 

This is supposed to be an example of terrible flying? Pardon me while I snort a bit.

It might be an example of 'not adhering to the recipe laid down by His Excellency the Flying Instructor', but at 300', raising the flaps all at once - if you're above the flaps up stall speed, which you must have been by then, unless it was a ridiculously steep climbout, I'd be tempted to say 'big deal'.

Hopefully your instructor said nothing, and just let you notice that you needed more of a pull to keep the climb attitude. Or chose to lower the nose a bit and accept the slightly shallower climb until you had a bit more speed.

If you raise the flaps a bit at a time, the pitch change for each one is smaller than if you raise them all in one go, and you can trim a bit between stages, but really.... you can fly the whole circuit with two stages of flap or none at all. Some aircraft don't even have flaps.

So I'll gloss over the majority of it to save you my angst.

I suspect you're glossing over the important stuff. The errors you report are typical for a low hours student, and irrelevant in the medium to long term, because as you get more familiar with controlling the aeroplane, you will have more head space available - the spare capacity if you like - to remember to do the other things.

I'd like to hear what the real problem is with the actual flying. By this I don't mean fiddling about with flap levers, and doing X at Y position in the circuit, and check A at position B.

I mean controlling the aeroplane in the various stages of climbing, turning, S&L, descending, more turning, and the flare and hold-off that is the circuit.

Yes, absolutely, a procedural approach is helpful, and you'll be expected to be methodical, so getting the lists and the order and the 'do this here' and the rest of the fiddling about sorted out is desirable. But all that will come once the flying itself is more natural, and you have more available head space, as from what you write, it's lack of spare mental capacity that is the issue.

My advice would be, focus on the actual flying in the meantime and stop sweating the small stuff.


As I turned Base for the fourth time I was eyes out for anyone cutting in from the right on a long final (see last week!), then, as I looked straight ahead I spotted another aircraft. 12 O'clock, level!  :shock: Definitely pointing our way. :shock:

Good work.
User avatar
By T6Harvard
#1853878
Ha,ha! @TopCat , that made me laugh.

Now you've made me review the messy hour again and..... well I suppose SOME of the actual flying wasn't too bad. I was slow to attain Vy many times (usually have that quickly), also slow to reduce power at circuit height because I found the throttle unresponsive until at least 4inches out, which took me too long. I was told to trim for 90kts while turning onto Downwind but that goes against the grain of not trimming in a transient manoeuvre and I was probably at capacity watching heading change, keeping speed and level .

This particular a/c is higher revving at 90kts and I definitely found that unnerving, like it was running away with me. Seems I must have been getting used to the sound and feel of my preferred steed :)

Turns were fine, definite failure to trim appropriately, am improving descent speeds attainment generally but a couple of times I got a bit slow on approach and was prompted to add power (and that felt natural later, after I was reminded that the throttle is not a hand rest :lol: ). I found myself raising the nose on occasion though :shock:

I did feel a lot more (not sure of right word) comfortable (?) on Final, turning onto extended centreline, sometimes nailing 65kts but not always, but actually being able to divide my attention between the view, Alt, and ASI, was better.

Oh look, it was another Curate's egg :lol:
tr7v8 liked this
User avatar
By T6Harvard
#1853909
Duncan M wrote:A difficult read, never nice to hear tales of a bad day at the office.
/snip/
Rather than seeing the circuit as a list of separate events with check lists to complete before moving to next phase, try to think what you are asking the aircraft to do as you fly the circuit.
For example, using flap. Flap increases the lift of the wing for a given airspeed. Slowing the
aircraft on base/final needs flap to stop the aircraft descending too quickly at the reduced airspeed. Thinking through the phases of flight and what state the aircraft needs to be in to achieve it helps with understanding what is required rather than just reading a checklist.
Understanding what is required will help in making the right decisions especially when faced with unusual or emergency situations.
/snip/ :lol:


I know in theory what the purpose of the actions are but the way you phrased it has made me chair-fly a circuit JUST thinking about what I want the ac to do. It helped! Thanks.

Not only do we all learn in different ways but it varies from task to task, doesn't it? Fascinating.

I want to 'get' this flying mallarky, I really do. We are so lucky to even be able to try to do it :)
tr7v8 liked this
User avatar
By JAFO
#1853921
T6Harvard wrote:I want to 'get' this flying mallarky, I really do.


Me too, @T6Harvard, me too. Next month is the 35th anniversary of my first solo and I'm still trying.

T6Harvard wrote:We are so lucky to even be able to try to do it :)


Ain't that the truth.

I'm glad that you're enjoying the journey and I'm enjoying hearing about it. From what I can see, you're doing fine - a bit harsh on yourself at times - but doing fine.
T6Harvard, Rob P, TopCat liked this
  • 1
  • 28
  • 29
  • 30
  • 31
  • 32
  • 45