Learning to fly, or thinking of learning? Post your questions, comments and experiences here

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By T6Harvard
#1852179
TopCat wrote:
David Wood wrote:But there are things (and the undercarriage is the classic example) where that can be dangerous in practice because the Action overrides the Check and the action takes a few seconds to take effect - by which time if it hasn't taken effect the checklist has moved on.

Yes, this is a really good point. Even at PPL level the carb heat check would be in this category.

For a complete check, / snip /

The downwind checks as I was originally taught them had the Ts & Ps check and a lookout in between these.

No good just pulling the knob out and pushing it back.


Said the actress to the..... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Apologies to @editmonkey for lowering the tone.
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By David Wood
#1852185
TopCat wrote:Yes, this is a really good point. Even at PPL level the carb heat check would be in this category.

For a complete check, it has to be left hot long enough to check the outcome (rpm drop and stable if no ice, drop and increase or roughness if ice is present and melting), and then set it cold and note the rpm recovery.

The downwind checks as I was originally taught them had the Ts & Ps check and a lookout in between these.

No good just pulling the knob out and pushing it back.


Indeed. And so what I try to get students to do is to put the carb heat to hot at the start of the checks (technically, prior to the start of the check) and then put it back to cold towards the end and then Check that it is cold. But, like I said, there is the risk of trying to be too pedantic on this point. Apologies if I am.
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By David Wood
#1852187
T6Harvard wrote:
TopCat wrote:
David Wood wrote:But there are things (and the undercarriage is the classic example) where that can be dangerous in practice because the Action overrides the Check and the action takes a few seconds to take effect - by which time if it hasn't taken effect the checklist has moved on.

Yes, this is a really good point. Even at PPL level the carb heat check would be in this category.

For a complete check, / snip /

The downwind checks as I was originally taught them had the Ts & Ps check and a lookout in between these.

No good just pulling the knob out and pushing it back.


Said the actress to the..... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Apologies to @editmonkey for lowering the tone.


I had a sublime moment with a female student some years ago. She was struggling with the primer, which was a bit stiff as they often are.

"It's a bit stiff," she said.
"Well, give it a couple more strokes," said I in all innocence (honest, m'lord. No, really....).
"OK," she replied doubtfully. "But, the more strokes I give it the stiffer it gets!"
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By TopCat
#1852233
You lot are shocking. Stop it right now! None of this loose talk on this forum, if you please.

If you don't stop this nonsense I will announce that the impossible turn is perfectly safe if executed promptly, correctly, and above 400 feet or perhaps a bit less. And you know where that will lead.
T6Harvard liked this
By TopCat
#1852235
David Wood wrote:But, like I said, there is the risk of trying to be too pedantic on this point. Apologies if I am.

Too pedantic? Not in my book, bring it on!
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By editmonkey
#1852930
T6Harvard wrote:
Apologies to @editmonkey for lowering the tone.


Ha, sorry just catching up on all this today. Never apologise for lowering the tone here T6 :) I think that ship has sailed.

Next lesson today, new instructor. Will it be another 10 circuits? Wait and see. Weather looking utterly GLORIOUS for once. Will I get a horizon to play with today or will it be hazy? That's the question.

16002KT 9999 SCT035/// 14/07 Q1021=

Will report back later.
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By editmonkey
#1852998
Well now. That was a different kettle of fish. Where to start...

New instructor - big thumbs up for the teaching style. And another circuits session which I was pleased about as I felt there was a lot to rectify from last week.

It was a lovely flying day, high base, slight breeze straight down the runway and miles and miles of beautiful visibility. Clear as a bell. And as it turns out, I could see the airfield much better without my sunnys, so they remained in my bag.

Did a thorough brief and unloaded my flying worries onto my new FI - told him about my taxying woes, being overloaded on base, so we decided to tackle those things specifically.

Did the checks, and then a little bit of taxy practice to get over that hump and it turns out my taxying isn't that bad anymore, had a good play with the rudders and diff brakes driving the plane around the apron and I think that's what I really needed.

Got lined up, and up we went. The first circuit was a bit ropey, just getting the feel of the plane again and remembering all the things. But we took it slowly, talked through the radio calls and by downwind I was back on it. First landing wasn't too bad, but safe. Ultimately what really shifted today was the basic flying felt more second-nature, I had more time, and I started to get a real feel for judging rate of descent and height during the base leg.

It all seemed easier this week and I'm making more positive decisions now. But something else changed this week... up until now I've been taught yoke for speed and power for height on final. This week we flipped it, and it seems so much more intuitive. Kept the runway aspect steady using the yoke and controlled speed with the throttle.

The rest of the circuits were mostly fine, still occasionally forgetting carb heat, but getting configured much quicker, sometimes still too high approaching the turn to final in the last 4 or 5 circuits I was nailing my final turn more.

My landings were a mixed bag, I'm generally flaring too early. 10 more with the FI today. #3 stalled too high and dropped onto the mains with a hell of a thump.

#4 was a floater, thought I was down, thought I was down, thought I was down.... I wasn’t down... plane started rising, so I made a go-around decision but in the rush forgot to raise 2nd stage of flaps at 100 ft and took a wee moment to realise why I was at full throttle with the speed stuck at 60.

All the approaches felt shallower and calmer today. For the last five, my instructor told me he was keeping quiet unless something went wrong, so suddenly I was just doing it, correcting things when they went wrong, making the radio calls and just doing all of the flying things. It was magic.

The wind had veered a bit by then and there’d been a steadily building crosswind that wasn't helping my landings at all. Quite nervy, found it tricky to get lined up straight and it took a bit of playing with the rudder to get the hang of keeping it lined up. I think on one approach I was crabbing and about 10 feet to the right of the actual centre line but as we got closer I kicked it back over we were down, albeit with a screech.

On one we were perfectly lined up and stabilised and the plane suddenly ballooned at about 50ft as if hit by a gust, then dropped back down. One was an absolute greaser. Even my instructor cheered.

Finally, we pretended the engine had blown up on the climb out. I followed him, then second time around he pulled the power and I had to quickly stick the nose down and find a field. (Picked one with lots of cut hay).

And then....

"Right", he says. "How do you feel about doing one on your own?"

Nearly filled my breeches. Argued a bit about how I wasn't ready to land on my own, but he showed me 10 ticks against 10 crosswind landings in his notebook. And that was that. Safe enough, apparently.

So off I went into the blue. And it was one of the most MAGNIFICENT experiences of my life!!! Proper bucket list stuff. Took my time on checks, got it lined up dead centre, and, well, I flew a near as dammit perfect circuit. I think because I knew there was no-one to stop me spiralling to my demise I was that much more focussed, so I nailed my heights and speeds, descent on base ended up little high so glided her down a bit, hit my base turn at exactly the right height, fought the crosswind a bit on short final but then the wind just dropped away over the threshold and the plane kissed the tarmac, straight down the line, like a baby. Even my taxy back to the fuel truck was spot on. :D

The handling was so different though. Had to really catch the climb out and I hit 500 and 1000 very early and the plane was cruising closer to 100 than 90 at 2400 revs. I got nervous on downwind - I had a few moments spare and looked down, saw the ground in relation to the main wheel and realised where I was and how alone! And on final, there was a brief moment realising that I had to get down, quickly quashed by the work of doing it.

WOW!! 11 and 11 in all. First as P1S and ex14 logged. :D :D :D :D :D

(Sorry, that was a long one)
Last edited by editmonkey on Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:05 pm, edited 11 times in total.
TopCat, JAFO, T6Harvard and 4 others liked this
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By akg1486
#1853047
Congratulations @editmonkey !! You'll remember this, possibly for longer than any other flight.

My own two strongest memories are (1) the improved performance without the instructor and (2) the realization on climbout that I had to land that thing by myself. I'm not as senior as many Forumites, but it's soon 18 years ago.

Enjoy the feeling!
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By editmonkey
#1853057
Thanks all! Been replaying it all afternoon in my mind. Properly special.

akg1486 wrote:
(2) the realization on climbout that I had to land that thing by myself.


Quite! There was a definite although momentary wobble turning onto final where I looked at the threshold and though, ‘oh sh*t, I really have to do this one and there’s no one here can help!

Also @TopCat those downwind checks really came into their own when it was me having to make sure the plane was fit for getting down safely. They became much more than a checklist.
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By tr7v8
#1853059
@editmonkey Just seen this well done. I understand the filling your underwear bit! But in some ways no having someone talking in your ear must focus you a bit more. Onwards & upwards as they say.
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