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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542711
Is there anyone (suitably qualified) out there who can repair a voltage regulator?

Specifically, a Chinese (JTY-1A) one from a Nanchang?

Currently grounded. :(
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By Sooty25
#1542746
I'm sure there are plenty of people, possibly including myself, who may be perfectly capable of repairing it, but its the "suitably qualified" bit we may be lacking!

Out of curiosity, do you have any schematics for it?
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By MercianMarcus
#1542759
Sorry for temporary hijack, but do either of you know if there is an easy way to test if a voltage regulator is working correctly? I ask because the symptoms themselves seem common to other electrical issues.

MM
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542771
Sooty25 wrote:I'm sure there are plenty of people, possibly including myself, who may be perfectly capable of repairing it, but its the "suitably qualified" bit we may be lacking!

Out of curiosity, do you have any schematics for it?


As I'm sure you can guess, the "suitably qualified" is to satisfy a certain bunch of people just south of LGW.

The best I can find is here, except it's for the JTY-1 and we have the JTY-1A. Not sure of the differences:

http://cj6.com/static/media/files/JTY-1_transistor_DC_regulator.doc

Schematics and the original Mandarin here: :shock:

http://cj6.com/static/media/files/Solid_state_Reg..JPG

http://cj6.com/static/media/files/Solid_State_Reg_2.JPG
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542785
Damn! Whilst I've been writing "War &Peace" HF has posted the above....well, buggrit, it may be of interest/use to someone. meanwhile, unless discrete components have been used, a solid- state reg is normally a throwaway. There are plenty on the aftermarket, but some adaptation may be needed. start with Durite and Wood-Auto. major suppliers of parts for rotating electrics (starters, alties and dynamos)
see below... as long as it's big enough to feed the required field and has the right connections, it's just a case of mounting.....of course, you could always rewire the whole generator circuit :mrgreen:


Making a sweeping assumption that you're talking about a mechanical reg. as opposed to Solid- State. Also makes a difference if it's for a Dynamo or an Alternator. .
If you consider an Alty to be , basically, an inside- out Dynamo, understanding the basics becomes easier.
Breaking a magnetic flux with a coil, induces a voltage within the coil (you generate electricity)

We'll assume you have an alternator.....they're lighter, simpler and easier to make and give an increased output at low RPM. As they're superior to a Dynamo setup a premium-price can be charged. I nave never seen a Western-built Alty, with a mechanical reg. but plenty of Asian ones.

The Stator is the laminated steel body ,it has a series of "posts" projecting towards the centre of the cylinder, these have coils wound upon them, which are usually linked in series sets each set terminating in an output wire. Down the middle of this ring of coils, goes the iron Rotor which has a coil wound on it, terminating in 2 copper slip-rings . Carbon brushes contact these rings and fie a field-current to the rotor, which then becomes magnetised.
THE REGULATOR CONTROLS THIS FIELD. As the rotor spins, it's now-magnetised poles pass over the ends of the coils on the stator....you get output!

Initially, the voltage from the field is from the battery, via the reg. Some designs switch the warning-lamp, some have the warning-lamp in series with the field, thus, when you switch on, the current flows through the bulb, through the rotor windings (through the Reg, either before the field, or after)...then to ground.....the bulb lights and the field is weakly energised. as the revs build, the voltage rises Some designs, the output feeds back down the bulb, opposing the battery voltage feeding it. This, of course,slows the current flow, the light gets dimmer and when the battery and output voltages are equal, the current stops completely and the lamp(which has already gone out!)has equal voltage on both terminals. Other designs use the Reg to switch the lamp...Why? dunno!
To me, a self-contained, solid-state Reg is the way forward Warning-lamp and output terminal being the only 2 connections to the alty. (output is via a bridge-rectifier so you get "lumpy" DC out.....battery can be permanently connected to the output, as the rectifier acts as a one-way valve. If it goes faulty, it can drain the battery or alternatively, a phase -output is absent, so the output voltage drops.... insufficient to charge the battery,but often enough to sustain a small load.
Back to the Reg!. These are usually 2 or 3 solenoid coils. the armatures carry contacts. There are various resistors incorporated (these are often "hidden" and can burn out) and often the design incorporates temperature compensation. Basically, it switches the warning-lamp and supplies field-current to the generator. When output-voltage rises to a preset value (a bit over 14V for a 12V system), the regulator switches (via the solenoid coils) the field off...output ceases, regulator switches field in again cycle repeats at a very rapid rate. Also, of course, it switches the output to the battery, until it "sees" a fully -charged battery.

Above is by no means a full description! It should give an inkling of the complexity of a separate-reg. setup and the potential fault -paths.

A bit of searching should unearth the Lucas Voltage Regulator repair workshop procedures manual. The basic principles are the same and the explanations probably somewhat more ordered and concise than mine! Google is your friend!
Note that coils can be rewound, wire-wound resistors substituted, even burnt- out points can be replaced, The biggest problem for the unskilled, is setting -up the various coil-operating parameters. They have to be "tweaked" in a set order, within a set time-frame, or the generator has to be run at a set speed for a defined period before re-trying the procedure (minutes, not hours, but still a toil).

One is tempted to ask, "why not just buy a new one from China?".....It'll probably be as cheap as chips, ready set- up and OE quality (OK forget that bit) fit and forget.

Forgot to say, terminals are usually marked "D" (dynamo) or G (generator) or A (alternator) F- (field) B- (battery) WL -(warning-lamp) E - (Earth)

"suitably- qualified" Is someone who can make it work properly! that is self-evident.....if theyre not "qualified" they won't be able to repair it. "holds a suitable qualification " is another thing altogether!
When refurbishing a house, my late friend, a Chartered Engineer , dismissed the requirement for "suitably qualified" gas and electricity installers. He was variously in charge of gas, goal, oil and nuclear power stations and thus , far better qualified than the average fitter (but vastly less experienced, which is why I did most of it, being a man on the tools with no qualifications at all! )

hth.
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By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542789
Just had a quick shufty at the spec. and schematics. Assuming this is a tin box with a circuit- board (there's every indication that this is, indeed , a piece of early, discrete- component circuitry) The hardest part would be the selection of suitable substitute transistors. One of the major Semiconductor- brokers could well have spec. sheets available, for the original types. I am not an electronics engineer, but a "dabbler" these part-numbers mean nothing to me and could well be long- obsolete (in the West) Germanium-types. Resistors and capacitors will be no problem at all.

I'd suggest Sooty is your man.....note the connections are numbered, not lettered, but the schematic is quite clear what each terminal does.
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542802
The schematic looks easy enough, but as CS says, it's identifying the components and finding suitable replacements which may be tricky. I suggest whoever takes it apart creates a new circuit diagram labelled with all the component numbers.

Google is a wonderful thing these days for getting data sheets, etc. Just had a look at the first document and it has the component values listed. The transistors are silicon, and there are data sheets on the web.

Three of the transistors are 3DG27.

http://www.chinesechip.com/chip/80dec6ef0e6f4c7b8c63fb2b9e6e68ae.html
http://www.lotterychina.cn/caipiao-fucai3D/news-3DG27B
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/575393486.html

If you're using Chrome, use "Translate" on the top bar to translate them. Just a bit of info for anyone who chooses to tackle this.

The 3DG182 might be a replacement.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://product.dzsc.com/product/infomation/332690/121014161120919.html&prev=search

http://www.chinesechip.com/chip/64a2958ec4d648d588feb8a9294655e5.html

The power transistor is the 3DD6D-T.

https://www.yoycart.com/Search?SearchText=3DD6D-T&catId=0&catId=0

I haven't done a detailed search for the diodes, but I suspect they might turn up something.

Getting into this now. This appears to be the relay:

http://biktech.b2bage.com/product-relays/96229/jzx-4m-miniature-dc-hermetically-sealed-electromagnetic-relay.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/-Electronic-components-JZX-4M-RJ4_60646206809.html

http://bcrelays.com/Relay.JZX-4M.pdf

I would have thought whatever is broken, it's probably a transistor, diode or capacitor. Or maybe the relay. Unlikely to be the resistors but not completely unknown.

Or the fuse might have blown. :clown: Worth checking first...
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542848
Fuse is ok.

One is tempted to ask, "why not just buy a new one from China?".....


A surprisingly large number of US$ From China. Hence we're considering a western alternator mod as an option.

Thanks for the above. I'll look into it further.
By cockney steve
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1542872
I would suggest to hire somebody with license so you will get guaranty after it fixed.


You will be extremely unlikely to find anybody at all who holds any sort of professional qualification to repair voltage-regulators. I doubt even radio/instrument installers will go down to component level.
Lucas-CAV went bust a good while ago, 24v systems are common on Commercial Vehicles and heavy plant, which were predominantly served by CAV. They probably did a factory-exchange unit, but solid-state stuff is usually "potted" in resin , rubber or pitch....ostensibly to weatherproof it,but it makes repair virtually impossible. ( old units are often taken in part-ex and destroyed, in order to keep a "closed-shop" and restrict repairers/reconditioners.

In the case we're presently discussing, a couple of Forum electronics "whizzes" have stuck their heads above the parapet. If it is presented, working, with properly-soldered joints and tidy workmanship, there's probably no reason why a qualified person should not put their name on the ticket as "airworthy" for the complete unit.
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By Sooty25
#1543396
If it wasn't fitted to a CAA PtF aircraft........

I'd start by checking all the cabling was in tact.
I'd check all the terminals and connectors were clean, shiny clean.
Then I might consider popping the unit apart and giving it a good look over, and I'd probably re-solder the entire PCB.
I might then have a prod about with a multimeter just checking all the components I could against the drawing. If all good at that point, I'd re-fit it and re-test.

If you were lucky that might just do it, if not I'd probably set it up on my bench and go through it against the drawing. As Paul has shown, the specs of the transistors are available and equivalents would be available. So it would be fixable.

As for the paper trail, well that only ever starts if there is any paperwork and if anyone knows it was ever faulty, which unfortunately everybody does!
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1543519
Of course it's theoretical. :wink:

Becoming moot as it's all going to come out to be replaced by Western kit by the looks of it.
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By Sooty25
#1543610
to be honest, that is probably a smart move.

If not, I might be passing your way week commencing 17th, not that I'd actually touch anything......
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By Human Factor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1543885
Thanks for the offer, although it isn't at Waltham at the moment. Ducks are currently lining up for the alternator conversion. Hopefully complete in the next week or so.