The place for technical discussions about GA and flying.
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By Steve R
#1876824
This is more about vintage motorbikes than aviation, but I suspect that my answer may only be 'mogas from an airfield.

I've only just come alive to the danger that my winter-stored bikes are in from ethanol in unleaded. It was the introduction of E10 which prompted it.

Are there any forecourts left from where I can buy unleaded with no ethanol at all? I had heard that some Esso fuels are ethanol-free but after a little tour on Sunday, all I saw was E5 and E10

It seems that it is not *too* tedious to remove ethanol from modern unleaded (it might be an idea to remove the fag from your lips while you do this):
1. a few drops of food colouring in 2 litres of water
2. add to about 10/15 litres of ethanol ridden unleaded
3. shake like bu**ery
4. let it stand for 24 hours

The ethanol dissolves into the water and sinks to the bottom, the food colouring shows you how much liquid to siphon off. You should get 2litres of water back out, plus 1/20th or 1/10th of the volume of the original fuel.

I was also told that the remaining ethanol-free fuel might need an octane boost from a fuel additive, but I don't know about that yet.


Another thing mentioned was that old bikes left standing through winter might benefit from a little paraffin sploshed around the tank and allowed to run into the carbs to stop corrosion. Would diesel from the Audi have the same effect?

So. Is mogas ethanol free? Can I save this effort by getting a couple of jerry cans from a friendly airfield?
By johnm
#1876827
I'm slightly puzzled by all this for old vehicles because Cleveland Discol was around from the 30s through to 60s or so and was used just like any other car or bike fuel at the time as I recall....
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By VRB_20kt
#1876828
From the Esso website:

“Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.”
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User avatar
By Steve R
#1876830
Cleveland Discol
?

I'm guessing this is a sort of alternative gasoline with ethanol?

What I know is the pictures of corrosion and crud I've seen in carb bowls and fuel tanks due to water dissolved into ethanol.

I also know just how bloomin' difficult it is to get a bank of 4 Keihins BACK into the space between the inlets and airbox of a vintage Honda SOHC four......
By johnm
#1876831
Yes Cleveland discol was a combination of petroleum and alcohol produced by a collaboration between the Cleveland Petroleum Company and The Distillers Company it was around when I was a boy in the 50s...

I suspect your idea of "vintage" is a bit more recent than mine :-)
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1876846
As mentioned, the high octane unleaded you get in any garage should be ethanol free, though I don't know where "south west" starts. Test it using your water method and see if the "water" volume increases.

If I were storing bikes for the winter, I'd tend to stick a tank of UL91 through as the last fill up before putting them away. I think avgas tends to be more stable than mogas over a period of time.
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User avatar
By Grelly
#1876851
Hmm! Yes.

I just started my elderly bikes to take them for an MOT (after a year of not using them). They smoked like hell and I assumed the worst.

However, the garage advised that this was what happens to fuel with Ethanol when it is left to sit for a year. They advised that E10 would be worse and that, given the age of my bikes, I should be using Super-unleaded.

The garage still stinks a week later! Note to self - use them more often and use a premium fuel.
By avtur3
#1876934
Small distributors are permitted to sell E0, i.e. ethanol free unleaded. Here in mid Sussex there is a small independent distributor that supplies E0 at several local forecourts, I'm sure that that there must be similar small distributors around the country.
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By Trent772
#1877010
Mower, chain saw, lawn tractor, old motorbike....... All run on regular avgas. Just take a couple of jerry cans down to the airfield and enjoy first start every time, no problems after winter and that lovely biscuit coloured exhaust !!
By MikeW
#1877038
avtur3 wrote:Small distributors are permitted to sell E0, i.e. ethanol free unleaded. Here in mid Sussex there is a small independent distributor that supplies E0 at several local forecourts, I'm sure that that there must be similar small distributors around the country.


I also assumed they could do it on the low volume basis but apparently not - see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=119751 (eighth post)
User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1878048
VRB_20kt wrote:From the Esso website:

“Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*

Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with ‘up to 5% ethanol’, including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.

There’s currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.”


BP also I'm told.
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By VRB_20kt
#1878325
Interesting. Last time I asked BP they were considerably less forthcoming. Sounds like it would be worth buying a few litres and testing it.