Group flying opportunities & questions
#1822173
To all those hours builders out there!

We have a fantastic Beagle Pup series 1 which we are hours building in - and are making it available as part of our Hours Building Club!

The terms are:
Membership £12 per year
Hours Packages
5h £95 per hour
10h £90 per hour
20h £80 per hour

The Pup is based at Stapleford, excellent availability in the week - if you want to come and stay at Stapleford to hammer out some hours there is accommodation on site.

A landing card is available for £270 a year for unlimited landings at Stapleford.

Our minimum requirement is that you have a PPL and you are enrolled on your ATPLs with a recognised ATO(distance learning, part time or full time are all fine) or you have completed your ATPLs and are looking to hours build.

We require a 1 hour check ride to familiarise yourself with the aircraft, we do this free of charge.

If you're interested, PM me or call me on 0333 050 8990

Luke
Last edited by lcolman on Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1822255
I am an hours builder, as is the co owner of the aircraft. We are both studying ATPLs with an ATO and are inviting others who wish to lower the cost of their incredibly expensive flight training by being part of our club.

The requirement of our club is that you are part of an ATO studying for ATPLs to fly our aircraft.

Current DFT guidelines state that flight training for commercial licenses is allowed, hours building is part of that qualification requirement.

Stay Safe!

Luke
#1822339
So, I can find this in the guidance:

Permitted GA activities

........

Flying training organisations providing training for professional pilots, for the purposes of work, may continue to do so. Individuals undertaking such activity may continue to attend for these purposes. Social distancing measures must be in place and observed at all times.


But you aren’t a “flying training organisation”. Do you have a different reference for hour building in a privately owned aircraft?

See link:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-general-aviation/coronavirus-covid-19-general-aviation
#1822423
My understanding of the legislation is simply that you need to be enrolled on a professional pilot training course. Where you get your hours is up to you.

I have removed the offending sentence, as you are obviously very concerned about me... I do hope that this alleviates your concern.

To all other ATPL students that have the same interpretation of the law as myself - please feel free to come fly the pup with strict COVID19 measures in place and save yourself some money!

Safe skies!

Luke
#1822640
You aren’t offending me Luke. In different circumstances I would gladly congratulate you on your enterprise.

However if you burning holes in the sky in accordance with a novel interpretation draws attention to GA and leads to a view that a further tightening of the guidance or law is required, then you might offend a few hundred GA flyers? Or other Stapleford residents?

Do please bear these extracts from another place in mind:

The DfT has given a hard-earned concession regarding maintenance and continuity flying, we will not seek to interpret this for members. We believe that LAA members should make their own decisions based on their circumstances and risk assessment.

However I am generally worried that if this abused by members of the GA community, these concessions will be withdrawn.

....

Currently there is a clear Government mandate of stay at home. It’s hard for us to argue against that. However when the time is right we’ll be making the case for further concessions and we’ll keep you informed as the situation progresses.

....

I would add too that you might also bear in mind the possible ill-feeling that may be engendered in local residents around your airfield who can’t visit their families, yet see a small aeroplane in the air. They can’t tell whether it is a legitimate maintenance or continuity flight, they’ll just assume it’s someone flouting the regulations.


I genuinely hope you can fill your boots building hours in the long days of summer, and then move on with your training.
#1822722
I have absolutely no dog in this fight (not even a Pup), yet I fail to see how being enrolled with an ATPL ground school gives you permission to carry out flights which are not part of the course.

Hour building is hour building, not training, and my layman’s guess would be that the CAA would take the same stance.

I suspect the real core intent of the DFT’s guidance is to permit necessary on-the-job training and currency checks for those in work, and the further you get from that with weasel words, the more shaky is the ground on which you stand.
Iceman, A4 Pacific liked this
#1822773
A4 Pacific wrote:
The DfT has given a hard-earned concession regarding maintenance and continuity flying, we will not seek to interpret this for members. We believe that LAA members should make their own decisions based on their circumstances and risk assessment.

Do you have a link to the above please, it's the 'based on circumstances and risk assessment' I am particulary interested in.

TIA
#1826072
Don't most people have packages on their landline and/or mobile that means calling an UK land number or mobile is part of their 'free' calls anyway?
These people would wonder whether 0333 is in their package or whether they would have to pay, even if it is just a local charge.
The above is more about keeping their own number off the net.
#1826154
GrahamB wrote:I have absolutely no dog in this fight (not even a Pup), yet I fail to see how being enrolled with an ATPL ground school gives you permission to carry out flights which are not part of the course.

Hour building is hour building, not training, and my layman’s guess would be that the CAA would take the same stance.

I suspect the real core intent of the DFT’s guidance is to permit necessary on-the-job training and currency checks for those in work, and the further you get from that with weasel words, the more shaky is the ground on which you stand.


"Weasel words" - nice way to have a conversation.

Anyway - my understanding of the DFT advice is simply to allow the continuation of professional pilot training. Since the hours are required to complete such training I believe it is covered.

I have since tried to get clarification from the DFT and have just sent an email to Grant Schapps asking to clarify this as it would not be allowing professional pilot training to continue if we can't build hours to qualify for first an MEIR and then the CPL.

I would be interested in finding out if you would be accusing me of weasel words if you met me in real life?
#1826156
Rob L wrote:"If you're interested, PM me or call me on 0333 050 8990
Luke"

I'd be seriously concerned by someone openly using an 0333 number. I'd certainly walk away, even if I were interested.


You can PM me and I will give you my actual mobile number, however, with the number of scrapers on the internet just waiting to bombard me with calls from "Accident Helpline", I thought it would be a good idea to use a number I can turn off once I have finished using it.

Tech eh?
#1826162
A4 Pacific wrote:You aren’t offending me Luke. In different circumstances I would gladly congratulate you on your enterprise.

However if you burning holes in the sky in accordance with a novel interpretation draws attention to GA and leads to a view that a further tightening of the guidance or law is required, then you might offend a few hundred GA flyers? Or other Stapleford residents?

Do please bear these extracts from another place in mind:

The DfT has given a hard-earned concession regarding maintenance and continuity flying, we will not seek to interpret this for members. We believe that LAA members should make their own decisions based on their circumstances and risk assessment.

However I am generally worried that if this abused by members of the GA community, these concessions will be withdrawn.

....

Currently there is a clear Government mandate of stay at home. It’s hard for us to argue against that. However when the time is right we’ll be making the case for further concessions and we’ll keep you informed as the situation progresses.

....

I would add too that you might also bear in mind the possible ill-feeling that may be engendered in local residents around your airfield who can’t visit their families, yet see a small aeroplane in the air. They can’t tell whether it is a legitimate maintenance or continuity flight, they’ll just assume it’s someone flouting the regulations.


I genuinely hope you can fill your boots building hours in the long days of summer, and then move on with your training.


You have made me question my understanding of the rules, and I am certainly happy to admit when I am wrong. With that in mind, I have sent an email to Grant Schapps to ask for clarification of this as I certainly don't want to break the law.

I look forward to the day when I might be able to take you for a flight in said Pup!

Stay safe,

Luke
#1826163
Boxkite wrote:Don't most people have packages on their landline and/or mobile that means calling an UK land number or mobile is part of their 'free' calls anyway?
These people would wonder whether 0333 is in their package or whether they would have to pay, even if it is just a local charge.
The above is more about keeping their own number off the net.


Glad someone else understands the need to do this!