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By Anon
#1209563
My 2nd or 3rd solo circuit session... Getting confident now that I am nailing those touch and goes... Too confident maybe…

Flying this final all nicely configured followed by a nice touch and full power to take off again then I notice a sooner-than-normal lift off but didn't dwell on it much until I reach maybe 100 feet QFE when I noticed I still have 2 stages of flaps... Without thinking too much I raise all the flaps at once. Then started this uncomfortable descent toward the end of the runway. I thought I could pitch up more and hopefully carry on the climb as the speed wasn't that low (65kt in Cessna 152). I feared a stall in that scenario however and instead, pushed forward a bit while quickly adding one stage of flaps. Soon my descent stopped at an altitude where I could see the details of the scenery at the end of the runway in more details and my heart was pounding. I soon started climbing but was expecting the Tower to say something which could be heard by my instructor at the club... This didn't happen thankfully, and when I walked back to the club I said to my instructor "yes, it went well"... I don’t know maybe I was worried unnecessarily expecting a stall but I didn’t want to chance it.

Edit: Just to clarify, we land with 20 degree flaps and take off with none.

Needless to stay lessons learnt: Don't raise the flaps all at once, never at a low altitude anyway.
Last edited by Anon on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By CaptCrispy
#1209629
one of the pre-take off checks should be to check the flaps are set for take off, when in the circuit doing touch and go flaps should be set on the ground. Hopefully this wont happen again but just case you can take off with with 10 degree flap in a 152.

Talk it over openly and honestly with your instructor
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By Gertie
#1209710
Couple of points:

(1) When I have tried to take off with full flaps in a 172 the thing has attempted to run off the left hand side of the runway, so that's another clue.

(2) After take-off you can keep 10 or 20 (until "200', positive rate of climb" or whatever your school wants), but get rid of 30 flaps if you've accidentally left them on - this should be part of go-around training, where you do start with full flap.

(3) As you say, don't raise the flaps all at once near the ground! - that sinking feeling!

(4) And as you noticed, when low and slow (65kts is a somewhat slower with no flaps than with 20 flaps) keeping, or even pushing, the nose down is often more useful than pulling it up. As taught for low and slow on approach.

(5) There's no point in pretending to your instructor - he knows perfectly well what happened, and the relationship, and the learning, will go better if you're honest about such things. I'm sure instructors do actually like to hear "I screwed up, I worked out what was going on, I worked out how to fix it, and I'll remember all that stuff for next time".
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By KNT754G
#1211755
Why are you not landing with full flap? Mr Cessna put them there for a reason and published performance figures for that configuration. There are no published performance figures for landing a Cessna 152 with partial flap.

Apart from T&G checks (carb heat cold, flaps set as required, trim in roughly the right place) after take off checks (not less than 300' above the runway) include "FLAPS UP IN STAGES" provided you are at safe speed (Vx will do), safe height (as mentioned 300 above runway) and positive rate of climb.

The aircraft will sink slightly as you retract each stage of flap but provided you retract IN STAGES the minor loss of performance is rapidly overcome.

Get your instructor to
a) demonstrate and get you to practice go arounds from FULL FLAP
b) explain why he is teaching you to land with partial flap
By cotterpot
#1211890
dparnell wrote:I was taught to land a 152 with 2 stages of flap, and only use the 3rd if I was too high......I still land that way


Well that's a novel 'approach'
By greggj
#1211897
Try doing that on go around... (actually please don't !).
I almost did that once, and was demonstrated at high altitude what happens if you do. Hint, we span.
By cotterpot
#1211920
greggj wrote:Try doing that on go around... (actually please don't !).
I almost did that once, and was demonstrated at high altitude what happens if you do. Hint, we span.


Not sure what you are referring too - care to clarify?

Ta
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By Keef
#1211926
I've done all the tricks with flaps, but never got into a spin with an early retraction. Sounds like the aeroplane may have been out of balance to start with.
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By KNT754G
#1212148
If you are below Vs1 and retract all flap suddenly you will enter a "change of configuration stall" (see report into GARPI) but Vso and Vs1 are so similar on a SEP that it would be difficult to achieve in practice.

For the aircraft to spin on sudden total flap retraction would, as stated, need the aircraft to be well away from wings level.in balance at the start.
By greggj
#1212341
It wasn't sudden. And probably over exaggerated by the instructor too.
This was a different case, as I did it on go around - and obviously the instructor was trying to teach me a lesson.

Basically he took me up to 5000 ft, to demonstrate what could happen if I did it again, and how badly it could have ended if I was close to the ground. Retract flaps in one go, full power, and pull - no wait for positive rate of climb, etc. He did the whole approach configuration, etc. first.

As far as retracting on T&G, if I do it in 172 and take off too fast - before flaps are retracted - the aircraft feels a bit out of balance.
I never had to do T&Gs in 152 with 10deg flaps. Seems very odd.
By dave_kent
#1212783
cotterpot wrote:
dparnell wrote:I was taught to land a 152 with 2 stages of flap, and only use the 3rd if I was too high......I still land that way


Well that's a novel 'approach'


Is it wrong?
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By RobertL
#1212982
A 20 degree flap setting in a 152, would also make sense in gusty, cross wind conditions. Full flaps, especially in the 150 and 172 with 40 degrees available, does reduce lateral stability, and in certain conditions (high density, humidity, weight) might preclude a go around. A default mental setting to always go to max flaps is not ideal, although agree that in normal conditions the full flap landing should be used for full stop.