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By Anon
#1120003
Lovely flying weather today, sky was busy. I lost count of the number of aircraft I spotted in 2 hours flight, yet I often don't see any for hours. It was so busy that twice I needed to give way to other aircraft en route. One of the occasions got me thinking after the flight.

I spotted traffic in my 1 o clock at a fair distance, level with me and not moving much, so I began a gentle right turn until it was in my 11 o clock, moving steadily towards 10. I was satisfied we were not on a collision course, so I stopped turning but kept watching. A second later the other aircraft sharply turned to its right and flew into my 9 o clock. I wondered whether I had done something to spook the other pilot, or if he'd just not seen me until that moment and decided he needed to give way to me (I was presumably on his right by that time).

It occurred to me that if you're too precise about just turning until you observe relative movement you could still end up creating a near miss that you could have prevented. I guess the strategy for gaining the widest possible margin would be to put the other aircraft in your 9 o clock. Any thoughts?
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By Sir Morley Steven
#1120270
Looks like he wasn't paying much attention and saw you late. You had it covered and with him being on your right even instinctively he would turn right to avoid. Climbing or descending in your instance wouldn't help.
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By Full Metal Jackass
#1131524
Sir Morley Steven wrote:Looks like he wasn't paying much attention and saw you late. You had it covered and with him being on your right even instinctively he would turn right to avoid. Climbing or descending in your instance wouldn't help.


Hi Sir Morley Steven....

Reading his post, Anon says he made a gentle turn putting the other aircraft in his 9 o clock, means the conflicting traffic is on HIS left side, not on his right hence any evasive action taken by the other pilot towards THEIR right means automatically a conflict. Concerning your comment climbing or descending in his instance wouldn't help - could you advise why you say that?

I question that statement because I fly with a Zaon MRX as an additional assistance to the Mark I eyeball and the logarithms say that if there are two planes closing, one which is 3 NM away and 500 feet higher, altitude constant, the other 5 NM away, 500 feet higher and descending, it will trigger an advisory on the one further away as, after all, a plane closing on you but 500 feet above you and with a constant relative vertical separation is not a risk whereas a plane closing on you whilst sinking to your altitude is.

When I receive an advisory from the MRX and I can"t see the conflicting traffic, I will ensure, if possible, to put height between myself and the conflicting traffic...... For example, if I see "5NM, 500 feet higher, descending", I will start looking for the traffic whilst I wait until the system says 3NM and then determine from the height differential what my best course of action would be. If, at 3NM the relative vertical separation is now 0 with a tendency to sink, I would climb 200 - 300 feet, maximising the separation. If the conflicting traffic is, say, 200 - 300 feet higher, tendency sinking, I would sink maybe 500 feet - obviously at the same time looking for the traffic and avoiding minimums......

Ok, in the case of me climbing, the other guy could see me first and stop his decent creating a potential conflict but, as the french say, c'est la vie :eye: I would also hope that, if the other pilot saw me when I couldn't see him, he would take any necessary avoiding action.

Yes, I realise this will only trigger on an aircraft equipped with a functioning and switched on transponder but anything which will supplement my eyes, is, in my mind, well worth it, but coming back to the thread topic, I would always want to put some vertical separation between myself and the other traffic, after all, a mid air collision only happens at your altitude......
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By Sir Morley Steven
#1134643
Full Metal Jackass wrote:
Sir Morley Steven wrote:Looks like he wasn't paying much attention and saw you late. You had it covered and with him being on your right even instinctively he would turn right to avoid. Climbing or descending in your instance wouldn't help.


Hi Sir Morley Steven....

Reading his post, Anon says he made a gentle turn putting the other aircraft in his 9 o clock, means the conflicting traffic is on HIS left side, not on his right hence any evasive action taken by the other pilot towards THEIR right means automatically a conflict. Concerning your comment climbing or descending in his instance wouldn't help - could you advise why you say that?......

Because I am a tw@.
You are right, the other aircraft was on the left and his turn put him further out of reach. I mustve misread it. Climbing or descending wont help if you are on a collision course as I am not aware of a standard thing to do in such a conflict apart from the opposite of what the other does. Of course staying where you are wont help either if you both do it.