[Anon]

I arrived in the overhead of the private farm strip where my aircraft is based and checked the wind sock. It was changing from a clear westerly crosswind to limp, but this was probably because it is not best sited when the wind is from the north as it is sheltered by trees. The wind all day had been from the north and with the nearby airport reporting 010/08 I elected to land on the northerly runway.

Due to instruction by the Zone controller to not exceed 1000ft QFE my approach had meant that I was already at circuit height as I was in the airfield overhead and I turned downwind keeping an eye on the airfield and surround. I subsequently turned base and applied flaps and just shortly before my turn to final I noticed an aircraft departing the runway but to the south. I considered options and decided not to orbit left as this may take me straight into the departing aircraft path if he was turning right. Similarly extending the base leg beyond the runway could result in the same if he decided to go straight ahead or turned left. I decided to turn sharply to the south and maintain my current height in the hope that if he continued a direct departure I would be sufficiently to the right of his path. It was a very disconcerting period while I had my back to the airfield but I did eventually see that he had made a fairly sharp left turn after takeoff. I don't know whether or not that was because he had seen me.

Although the other pilot might have been more aware of me had he been listening in to the frequency (which would also have informed him of wind direction and strenght at the local airport), as this is a private site and the limp windsock may have led him to choose a southerly departure (which may be slightly downhill) I have no real issue with his actions, especially as he turned left and avoided me. I'm just wondering if there is a. a defined procedure for handling this situation or b. if there was a better way that would have removed the uncertainty of the situation?

[Anon]

I was in the airfield overhead and I turned downwind keeping an eye on the airfield and surround. I subsequently turned base and applied flaps and just shortly before my turn to final I noticed an aircraft departing the runway but to the south

How did you not see the departing aircraft when you flew through the overhead? This, and downwind, is where you should do most of your approach observations and decision making, i.e. wind direction (there may be localised differences due to terrain, etc), runway condition, departing traffic, etc.

One of two possible reasons I can think of.

1. I was concentrating on the windsock so much I didn't notice an aircraft preparing for departure.
2. The Aircraft was next to some parked aircraft while conducting power checks etc and thus I presumed it was parked.

As with many private strips there is just the (grass) runway with a small parking area next to it. I'm quite happy with my decision to choose the northerly runway, but similarly I can understand why the other aircraft chose to depart south. It's quite feasible he moved out from the parking area onto the the adjacent runway just as I turned base and was occupied with in-cockpit actions (flaps/throttle/instrument checks).

[greggj]

Question, why you didn't say on the radio, that you are 1000 ft overhead, and you are going to land in that direction ? The other guy would probably have heard that, and consequently this thing would not have happen.
At least, that's what my rookie's brain tells me.
Whenever there's a slightest chance of confusion, I was told to announce my position quite often, as to keep other guys informed about my whereabouts and actions. After all, flying circuit doesn't take that much of brain thought after a bit of flying, so radio work is not really a big concern.
Please tell me if I am wrong, like I said, I am just a newbie, and very willing to learn and hear feedback on my sometimes stupid ideas.

thanks.

[greggj]

And another question, did you had your landing lights on ? It looks like it is easier to spot an aircraft, even in bright daylight, when the lights are on.

[chipmeisterc]

Question, why you didn't say on the radio, that you are 1000 ft overhead, and you are going to land in that direction ? The other guy would probably have heard that, and consequently this thing would not have happen.
At least, that's what my rookie's brain tells me.
Whenever there's a slightest chance of confusion, I was told to announce my position quite often, as to keep other guys informed about my whereabouts and actions. After all, flying circuit doesn't take that much of brain thought after a bit of flying, so radio work is not really a big concern.
Please tell me if I am wrong, like I said, I am just a newbie, and very willing to learn and hear feedback on my sometimes stupid ideas.

thanks.

"Although the other pilot might have been more aware of me had he been listening in to the frequency (which would also have informed him of wind direction and strenght at the local airport),"

Sounds like the other aircraft was non radio..

[greggj]

They should forbid people from flying without radio... These days, you can get handheld for peanuts in comparison with cost of any flying machine ...

(not to mention that some microlights have radios, but you can't hear them from 300ft away anyway, which kind of defeats the purpose).

thanks chipmeisterc, I missed that subtlety.

[Anon]

And another question, did you had your landing lights on ? It looks like it is easier to spot an aircraft, even in bright daylight, when the lights are on.

Possibly a valid point - I didn't have my landing light on on this occasion. But this was probably not actually relevant given that the departing pilot would not have been able to see it when I was downwind or on base. However had I turned final and not noticed him it may have been an additional measure that would help.

Bear in mind though that some aircraft do not have landing lights (or any lights).

I'm more concerned that having encountered the situation that I did - whether there was any better avoiding action I could have taken. Maybe there wasn't, but I certainly felt quite uncomfortable for a while until the situation had been resolved.

[Auster wobbler]

They should forbid people from flying without radio... These days, you can get handheld for peanuts in comparison with cost of any flying machine ...

they should forbid people who are "not" capable of flying without a radio, as flying without one makes you more aware of your visual surrounding's and not being reliant on the comfort blanket of a voice in your ear !

Austerwobbler

[Keef]

The radio is not relevant. He didn't hear it - no problem: lots of strip flyers don't have radios (or don't use them). I did three landings and two PFLs this afternoon, and never touched the PTT. I was looking out like a hawk the whole time, though.

There wasn't a lot else you could have done. He was not wrong to take off downhill - with little wind, that's what I'd do. I'd also land uphill, for similar reasons. In fact, I did the three today exactly that way.

The only question is what you do if you are on base, and see an aircraft about to take off. I would want to keep my eyes on him, since he clearly isn't looking out too well - he should have seen you in the circuit and waited for you to position and land.

Technically, you should make all turns in the circuit direction, so turning away isn't officially sanctioned (not that I'd worry if avoiding an accident). On base, you are in the right place to get clouted by the aircraft taking off towards you if you turn in. I would probably apply full power and climb on base, watching him (and the sky ahead) the whole time. Once he's clear, then reposition for the circuit, while watching in case he's also flying circuits.

[greggj]

Lookout is great, but ask instructors at the club where I fly about number of go-arounds because there was a friggin microlight flying on finals just below an aircraft.
They do have radios most of the time, but the radios they have are just a joke. Like I said, the guy is standing 300 ft away from you on apron, and all you hear is noise and static.
And you can't see them either, cos they are below you. Of course they have right of way, because they are lower than the guy flying spam-can. But that doesn't help if you can't see them. They can probably see us flying higher, but that doesn't help either.

Hence my point, radio is important for situational awareness. Nobody should rely solely on it, but it also isn't decreasing situational awareness. Please don't tell me that, even with so little hours, I already can see that it is very important (if it works properly).

[Anon]

Technically, you should make all turns in the circuit direction, so turning away isn't officially sanctioned (not that I'd worry if avoiding an accident). On base, you are in the right place to get clouted by the aircraft taking off towards you if you turn in. I would probably apply full power and climb on base, watching him (and the sky ahead) the whole time. Once he's clear, then reposition for the circuit, while watching in case he's also flying circuits.

Keef,

Thanks for the considered response and addressing the point.

This sounds like a sensible suggestion and worth considering in future, but I may still be concerned if the departing aircraft has a significantly greater rate of climb than me (all too possible). He's clearly prepared for the climb on departure and once in it may have very limited view ahead so may not see me approaching from the right. I'm not sure that many people actually dip their climb every few hundred feet!

I agree that his choice of departure behaviour was quite in order for the conditions as he saw them.

[Keef]

Indeed. It's one of those cases where there may be no one right answer. Approaching the base/final turn, you are probably around 500 feet. If you put on full power and achieve the 500 fpm you are supposed to be able to do (I know!) you should be visible to the chap taking off. More to the point, you will be clear of the runway centreline fairly soon. As long as you can still see the other aircraft, you can take avoiding action if necessary.

If you see a Sukhoi 29 taking off, then all bets are off The blighters depart very nearly vertically.

As regards radio: yes, it's useful. Approaching/departing from a full ATC airfield, you need it and will have all the information passed to you by radio. At a strip, I would rely 99% on lookout.

Yes, I've been cut up by microlights, but not at a strip and not at a full-ATC airfield. I'd rely far more on seeing them than on hearing them on the radio.

[ROG]

After numerous campaigns to get the safetycom frequency i don"t understand why some people never bother with it, It would have sorted the problem out in this case.
Perhaps its usage should be encouraged more--i expect that there are still people out there who don"t know that it exists.

[Flyin'Dutch']

By manoeuvring so you can keep an eye on the aeroplane you have the cards in your hands.

Turning away takes away that vital opportunity.

[cotterpot]

Hence my point, radio is important for situational awareness. Nobody should rely solely on it, but it also isn't decreasing situational awareness. Please don't tell me that, even with so little hours, I already can see that it is very important (if it works properly).

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.
So it's not that important and perhaps when you have a few more hours you will come to realise that flying without a radio is not impossible. There is a lot of good advice available here as long as you are prepared to listen.