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By Anon
Anonymous poster
#834079
[places removed, hope that doesn't make it too confusing]

I'm well aware that the allocation of a squawk by a controller is not a clearance to enter controlled airspace. However, I made a mis-assumption along similar lines when a MATZ controller took my squawk off me before leaving a MATZ.

I was taking pax to see a city [C] under a MATZ, so planned to fly a straight line N through the MATZ, to the E of [C]. I thought I might request an orbit round [C] if I felt like it. Once outside the MATZ I would stay clear by continuing north to [D] then flying W as far as a line feature before heading S again. In the event:

controller: G-XX squawk 7000
me: G-XX, east of [C], not out of the MATZ yet
c: There's no traffic between you and the MATZ boundary
me: Roger, squawk 7000 G-XX

In my mind I completely let my guard down and thought I didn't need to consider airspace any more. I assumed it must be quiet, and the controller didn't want to keep tabs on me any more. I decided I could just orbit round [C] without asking. I asked my pax but as it happens they weren't bothered so I carried straight on to [D], just outside the MATZ. I turned to the westerly heading as planned, had good visual contact with the line feature, then decided to just go visual, gently turning towards the south.

c: unknown traffic north of the [X] MATZ, state your intentions.

I thought he wasn't talking to me because:
1. As far I as I was concerned, I'd just been in the [Y] CMATZ, and wasn't going as far N as the next [XX] MATZ. The unidentified aircraft must be up there.
2. I wasn't unknown, we had spoken a couple of minutes before.

It was only when I got home and looked at my GPS trace that I found I'd almost accidentally re-entered the MATZ, missing by about 200m.

Lessons learned:
1. Squawk 7000 doesn't mean you can do what you want now.
2. Stick to your plan, unless you're absolutely sure it's ok to do something else.
3. Know the names of all the MATZ you're crossing.
#834136
[C] doesn't sound like Ely then ... can't remember the last time Lakenheath answered the radio on a Sunday! (Although your description otherwise matches a standard jaunt from Cambridge, except that I usually fly it the other way around.) In my case I make my three calls to Lakenheath, get no reply, then return to Cambridge Approach whilst doing the 1500' orbit over the cathedral. (When I do get through to them I can't understand the accent, so I just tell them what I'm doing.)
By Anon
Anonymous poster
#834149
[Y] is open on weekdays, and they have difficult accents too ;)
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By KNT754G
#834205
IMHO as a radar controller in Class G airspace (and a MATZ IS class G remember) if I had even the slightest idea that I might need to retain the identity of an aircraft I sure would not have instructed "squawk 700" at that stage.

You were perfectly entitled to do exactly what you did, if the controller was taken by surprise then I venture to suggest it is said controller who is at fault for not finding out just what you wanted to do.

I have innumerable aircraft, on a regular basis, who ask to overfly our aerodrome at 2,000' (just below the top of the ATZ). If I just told them to squawk 7000 and freecall en route as soon as they were clear of the ATZ I would have only myself to blame if they then turned south again 2 miles north of ATZ and overflew again in the opposite direction just above my ATZ, but conflicting nicely with the instrument traffic in the hold!!
By Anon
Anonymous poster
#834348
On first contact their normal reply is "Squawk XXXX MATX penetration approved". They don't normally say "pass your message".
By peterh337
.
#846525
There is however some ambiguity around this.

As a PPL I was taught that I need a clearance for a MATZ penetration. Apart from this being bollox, nobody ever simply stated the basic truth which is that Class G is Class G, etc.

And I don't think I was alone. A lot of pilots are scared of this stuff. They have been trained to call up every T D & Harry along the route and read out their inside leg measurement to them.

Let's say you are flying MID - CPT at 2000ft. That route is just outside the Odiham ATZ. You "ought to" call up Farnborough 125.25 for the MATZ penetration, but if you call them up and they give you a squawk, which they usually do, they are happy to just watch you and if they want you out of somebody's way they might ask for a climb to 2300ft or whatever. ISTM that they are happy because they have a "known traffic" and have less talking to do, and I am happy because I have less talking to do.

I've been doing this for years and obviously the ATC is happy with this procedure. There is nothing wrong with it (G is G).

The problem is that you can't do it with Class D (which in the UK is operated as Class B and sometimes as Class A) but because of the fuss made in PPL training over non-CAS "airspace" (MATZ, AIAA, etc) I think a lot of people get them confused and seeing the relaxed ATC handling of these areas they probably think a bit of Class D is the same kind of thing...
By Anon
Anonymous poster
#847224
Personally I treat MATZs as if they were controlled airspace, although I know they're not legally enforced.

My reason for posting was that I made a mistake in my reasoning which made me think I was invited to fly somewhere which I wasn't, and I thought the experience was worth sharing. I know that if it had been controlled airspace and I had actually infringed it, then there could have been more consequences - but on the other hand I probably would have been more careful in that case.

So far since getting my PPL I've managed to steer clear of class-D and haven't needed to transit yet.
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By gaxor
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#847797
So far since getting my PPL I've managed to steer clear of class-D and haven't needed to transit yet


I would recommend you plan a transit through class D next time out. Providing you communicate confidently & clearly, are fully aware of your situation and intensions and have planned for a transit refusal, it will be quite straightforward. the more you do the easier they become.
#847823
I'm sure many on here (myself included) would be happy to sit in with you or have you along on a trip involving some transit of class D. There's not a lot to it, and it's certainly worth doing!