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By Gerard Clarke
#647228
In the parachute thread in the main room, there's mention of flying Beagley Pups with the doors open. I had managed to last ten years of Pup flying before having the port door come open last night, about five minutes into a flight, when I was level at 1400 feet.

The Pup book, which, like the doors themselves, may be a triumph of the marketing department, says that the door opening in flight is no big deal, and that is broadly true, but it does lead to a somewhat sporty few minutes, and is rather more dramatic in impression than the book suggests. The aircraft needs a lot of nose up trim, and lots and lots of power to hold it level. The noise and general pandemonium is impressive and using the radio would probably be difficult (I was monitoring Norwich Radar but not talking to them).

I knew that there was a private airfield very close by (I was west abeam Fakenham) and knew the runway layout, so lowered a stage of flap and positioned for a long left turn to approach the into wind runway. The aircraft felt like quite a handful until I decelerated to 65 knots, and the landing was pretty normal. I probably flew for three to five minutes with the wind blowing up my nose.

This was an interesting experience, and one that I am strangely glad to have had, but it could have been very unsettling for a solo student or someone new to the aeroplane or to flying in general. It rather spolied my pleasant evening flight back to North Weald, as after the unscheduled stop I had to firewall the machine in order to beat the headwind and land just as the airfield was closing for the night.

Lastly, if there was anyone at Little Snoring at 1805 local last night, my apologies for my unheralded arrival (and equally rapid departure - I secured the door, backtracked and launched). I shall write to the flying group with a contribution to the grass mowing fund.
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By eltonioni
#647239
It's interesting that it was such a handful, any idea why Gerard? It once happened to me in a C150 at a hundred foot on climb out but it was just a breezy non event. (I've heard of people steering Cessnas with doors)
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By Gerard Clarke
#647270
It wasn't a huge handful, but the drag increased significantly and the aircraft wanted to descend. It felt quite uncomfortable to fly, but not dangerous. The Pup's doors are quite large and are a curved surface, so the effects on the airflow are probably more pronounced than they would be for a Cessna, which has smaller and straighter doors.
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By JonathanB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#647306
Interesting... I've flown the Pup with the door open but had no noticeable issues - I didn't bother about it and continued with my bimble. Maybe it was partially latched or something, but certainly didn't cause me any problems like you describe. Do you have gas struts on yours that push it open more?
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By KNT754G
#647543
That is actually one of my favourite scenario questions to C150/152 students, what would you do if the door came open at about 100 feet AAL in the climb?

A horrifying number answer "try to close it"

Fortunately a reassuring few answer "fly the aeroplane"
By ifty
#647558
KNT754G wrote:That is actually one of my favourite scenario questions to C150/152 students, what would you do if the door came open at about 100 feet AAL in the climb?

A horrifying number answer "try to close it"

Fortunately a reassuring few answer "fly the aeroplane"


Happened to me on my second solo, luckily was s & l so just closed it. told the instructor when I landed he said no harm done gov you done alright! :lol:
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By Gertie
#647566
KNT754G wrote:That is actually one of my favourite scenario questions to C150/152 students, what would you do if the door came open at about 100 feet AAL in the climb?

A horrifying number answer "try to close it"

Well, personally I'd wait until I was downwind ...

The door in a 152 came open the first time I took a passenger after getting my licence. I reached across and closed it and explained that the door was only to keep the wind off, it's the seatbelt that stops him falling out of the aircraft. This was no big deal as it had happened to me once during training, so I knew that an open door didn't affect flying and you could just shut it.

BTW, part of the passenger briefing in a Cessna is "if we're going to land in a field, I will tell you to open your door shortly before we touch down, so that it doesn't get jammed shut if the aircraft gets bent". Are there other types in which you do not do this because having the door open makes it sufficiently harder to fly that you're better taking the risk of a jammed door?
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By Gerard Clarke
#647580
Hi Jonathan, we don't have gas struts, but the door opened by about thirty centimetres and let in a lot of wind and noise, and I noticed a pronounced trim change and requirement for added power. I was probably showing about 105 knots when the door opened. I hope that I haven't given an impression of megadrama, as it really wasn't that bad, but it was somewhat worse than the book suggests that it might be. I suspect that much may depend on the individually wonky state of each Pup's doors and hinges, and perhaps on airspeed at the time. There was little if any drama once I was stabilised on the approach to land.
By ppppp
#647615
KNT754G wrote:That is actually one of my favourite scenario questions to C150/152 students, what would you do if the door came open at about 100 feet AAL in the climb?


One of the 152s I trained in had an unofficial checklist item on climbout:

1000 ft: Has passenger door popped open? Yes? Continue. No? Expect it to do so.
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By KNT754G
#647633
At safe height, trimmed S&L it is very easy to close the door of a C150/152 (provided you open the window, close door , then close window).

The trouble was so many wanted to try to close the door when far to close to the ground and still climbing.
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By eltonioni
#647711
Hehe, my breezy event went along the lines of

Me: My doors popped open
Instructor: And?
Me: What shall I do?
Instructor: Dunno, is the climb trimmed and stable?
Me: Seems to be
Instructer: Then close the bleeding thing, it's effin freezing.
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By Gerard Clarke
#647716
Pup doors won't close in flight - so says the book, and this turns out to be true. The boogahs are hard enough to close when you're standing still on the ground, let alone when hurtling through the footless halls.
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By JonathanB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#647731
Surprised it was open as much as 30 cm... then again I was doing more like 95 knots.

They truely are impossible to close in flight - and almost impossible with the engine running on the ground!
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By Goonhilly
#647783
Funnily enough, something similar happened on the group Cherokee 140 on Sunday afternoon. Hadn't closed the door properly on ingress. On take-off, thought that it was a touch noisier and breezier than usual! But actually not that unpleasant (but I do drive a convertible :D ).

Got on course, S&L, trimmed, had a bash at closing it properly, realised it would be impossible without stopping flying plane safely so left it. Enjoyed rest of flight.

Lesson learnt: check door properly during pre-take-off checks (except by choice in height of summer where it provides a comfortable amount of ventilation).

Unlike the sprightly Beagles, the Cherokee has all the manoeuvrability of a pregnant cow so door open was no biggie - it didn't appear to affect performance in a dramatic manner. I can see why it might be a bigger issue for a more thorough-bred beast . :wink:

Edited to add: Of course there' s a helluva difference between a door not being sealed properly (my experience) and a door popping open (GW's experience). Rather him than me! :?
Last edited by Goonhilly on Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.