[UpThere]

The Coventry mid-air has brought back memories of a near miss I had in the circuit at an airfield with a tower. The radio was very busy, so I was almost half way along the downwind leg before I could make my call. Soon afterwards, another aircraft was instructed to join on base leg, but I couldn't get a word in to give my actual position. The only safe action I could think of was to slow down, although there were other aircraft in the circuit. Even though I knew where to look, I didn't see the joining aircraft until it flew across my path, about 50ft higher and close in front.

I still find it unsettling, because I do not know what I would do differently, if it happened again. Any advice?

[Timothy]

You have two choices: maximise your lookout and situational awareness or only fly IFR into controlled airfields.

These things happen. Thankfully they happen rarely and we can do our best to reduce their liklihood, but you cannot stop them.

Flying (both commercially and privately) bears risk and we have to decide if the rewards trump the risks.

[Paul Incognito]

The Coventry mid-air has brought back memories of a near miss I had in the circuit at an airfield with a tower. The radio was very busy, so I was almost half way along the downwind leg before I could make my call. Soon afterwards, another aircraft was instructed to join on base leg, but I couldn't get a word in to give my actual position. The only safe action I could think of was to slow down, although there were other aircraft in the circuit. Even though I knew where to look, I didn't see the joining aircraft until it flew across my path, about 50ft higher and close in front.

I still find it unsettling, because I do not know what I would do differently, if it happened again. Any advice?

If genuinely concerned there's potential for a collission if you continue int he circuit and assuming fuel allows, you could exit the circuit in a direction where you can see it's clear. See-and-avoid and all that.

[Pcdabbler]

IMHO It's very poor airmanship to join a busy active circuit either downwind or base. An overhead join is the safest way if available. Gives a joining aircraft time to get the big picture and more importantly, get a visual on the other aircraft already in the circuit.

[Foie Gras]

IMHO It's very poor airmanship to join a busy active circuit either downwind or base. An overhead join is the safest way if available. Gives a joining aircraft time to get the big picture and more importantly, get a visual on the other aircraft already in the circuit.

There are several opinions on that. Forgive me for not having the time to argue them right now, but the briefest of searches of this forums will throw a few up.


FG

[Johnyev]

Tomothy a rather flippant reply i feel

Paul I think your response much more useful, remember you can go around from any point in the approach and rejoin the back of the 'queue'

J

[jerz]

IMHO It's very poor airmanship to join a busy active circuit either downwind or base. An overhead join is the safest way if available. Gives a joining aircraft time to get the big picture and more importantly, get a visual on the other aircraft already in the circuit.

If your listening out prior to joining the circuit and it's so busy that you can't get a call in, then your better of holding off before joining, even overhead. Don

[Worzel]

Tomothy a rather flippant reply i feel

why say that ? what was 'flippant' ?

[UpThere]

In this case, the other aircraft was instructed to join on base leg, as is common at this airfield. By the time I realised that I wasn't going to be able to tell ATC that that wasn't such a good idea, turning out of the circuit could have taken me straight into its path. Turning across the runway and returning to the circuit from the deadside may have been a better idea.

Given how close we passed each other, it must have been one of those almost static specks on the windscreen for most of the time. Difficult to spot at the best of times, but harder against a moving background of streets and buildings, while also doing downwind checks and looking out for other traffic.

[griggsy]

Up there

Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

I would agree that a go around at circuit altitude would have probably been the best course of action.

BTW i am not a great fan of orbits, bomber circuits or downwind extensions and treat all other aircraft as the enemy.

[KNT754G]

I regularly instruct aircraft to join on base at an airfield outside CAS (quite possibly the same one UT was at but maybe not.

If ATC did not tell the joiner that the circuit was active then that, IMHO, is tantamount to criminal negligence.

When I join aircraft to base leg I will pass generic traffic on the cct aircraft (join and report R Base for runway **, QFE is ***, circuit active right hand with three in)

I would expect the cct aircraft to have sufficient airmanship to hear that conversation and be aware of it, however any downwind call subsequent to that will elicit the response "Report on base leg, traffic is a *** joining from the Norht (or wherever)"

The order in which they report on base leg will then determine the order to final, assisted greatly by looking out of the VCR window to visually acquire their relative positions if at all possible.

Basic airmanship also dictates (or was dictated to me on my skills test briefing by the examiner) that traffic joining the circuit gives way if necessary to traffic already in the cct.

If I am on the other end (ie flying) and was the joiner in such circumstances, then if I could not see the downwind traffic I am sure as heck NOT going to join straight to normal base leg position at cct height. I will join either wide, high (by at least 100') or keep well out of the cct until I can see the traffic to integrate successfully.

[vee-tail]

There have been threads here on the advantages and dangers of OHJs and other joins. Personally I prefer to join on the extended downwind, and consider the case of a base leg join with aircraft in the circuit insane.

[Gertie]

consider the case of a base leg join with aircraft in the circuit insane.

I often ask for a right base join in a left hand circuit (Cambridge, 23, approaching from the north). If ATC think it's a bad idea given the current state of the traffic they'll say no and I'll do something else.

[Keef]

I reckon OHJs are dangerous in the extreme - lots of aircraft, all converging on the same spot from all directions. I suppose at least all the debris lands on the airfield. It requires extremely careful lookout, and preferably information about what else is around.

I prefer and am very used to being told to join left base/right base/downwind NUMBER 3 (or whatever the number is). I'm also told what's behind me. I know where to look, how many to look for, and usually the spacing. Southend (at least) will tell me the type in front, so I know whether to space out or keep tight in.

Often, I'll be asked to turn base NOW, or asked if I can turn to final from my present position on downwind (usually when number one has just set off for an international downwind ahead of me).

That can't be done where there isn't ATC, but even then I prefer not to do an OHJ if I can possibly avoid it. If all else fails, the arriving aircraft can talk to each other and sort themselves out.

[UpThere]

Thanks for all the responses. It's interesting that the majority of them are advising what the other pilot should have done!

Would I have infringed any rules, if I had chosen to abandon the downwind leg by turning across the active runway and going around, without obtaining a clearance from ATC first?