An anonymous forum to allow you to share those moments in flying that caused you concern. You can post without registering a username, registered users can log out to post
User avatar
By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#542510
1) Since the weather is undoable for your planned destination, decide on the morning of the flight where you're going instead, so that in spite of carefully trying not to rush the planning, you still end up feeling like you've hurried it.

2) Plan via a VRP you've never seen before and which turns out to be a smudge-in-the-grass disused airfield which you never manage to clap eyes on the whole flight.

3) Despite having an internet capable PC to hand, and despite having looked at the aerial photos for the airfield itself, fail to think of checking for pics of said VRP in order to avoid 2) even though the airspace in question is so notoriously infringed there's even a CAA guide to navigating it available online.

4) Use a borrowed GPS with which you have no more than a passing familiarity, and on which you do not not how to set said VRP as a waypoint.

5) Share the flying and navigating in such a way that neither of you is entirely sure whether or not, the other pilot knows exactly where you are.

6) Discover just as you start to get close to the more complicated airspace that the visibility is going downhill. Stare at and think about your previously selected diversion airfield but don't actually give up and go there.

7) Instead, dodge around clouds in such a way as to drift well away from your track just as you're getting even closer to the airspace. For added distraction make yourself feel well and truly queasy by staring at the GPS trying to put in a (belated) waypoint while the other pilot flies.

8) In spite of the radar controller offering a specific direction to look in to find the VRP, suggesting a heading, generally offering so much help that they clearly are worried about you becoming a bit lost, don't ask for help until you're told you've infringed.

In short, while flying with a friend, we managed to infringe Southhampton whilst talking to Bournemouth. Both units were far more sympathetic and accommodating than we probably deserved and soon had us out of there and on our way.

We phoned and apologised and hopefully nothing more will come of it but I feel well and truly chastened. Especially since, in spite of the above list I've compiled while trying to work out what went wrong, I'm still not 100% sure quite how we ended so far off track. The wind would have been using us that way, but all the way down it hadn't seemed as strong as forecast.

We did have a couple of issues with the radio -- Bournemouth were quite broken and having trouble hearing us as well. It was strange because no other unit had trouble, and no other aeroplane talking to them seemed to either. I don't think it really contributed except perhaps as extra distraction, to say otherwise would just be making excuses, but it didn't help.

About the only thing in our favour was that we were squawking Mode C so were spotted and helped from even before we actually ended up in the airspace.

Sorry sorry and thanks to Bournemouth and Solent/Southhampton and I will most sincerely try not to do it again. (That or stay away from complicated airspace until I know what I'm doing...)

Could be a new years resolution I suppose.
User avatar
By geejay
#542666
Good post Leia, and one I will certainly keep in mind when I eventually get to fly again.
By alanevans
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#542703
Leia -- until I got half way down your post, I thought it was a jokey list of things that can go wrong; then I realised it had hppened to you for real.

Two thoughts: 1) it reads like some accident reports, where a list of smallish problems add up to a much bigger one. Think about breaking the chain. 2) CRM applies to two pilots in a spam can as much as in heavy metal.

We can all learn from your adventure. Thanks for posting.

Happy New Year
Alan.
User avatar
By Moose
#542842
Out of interest, was the VRP you planned on using Stoney Cross? I've flown through there many times (have a friend who lives on the IOW) and always struggle to spot Stoney Cross when approaching from the north. It seems a little odd to pick such a hard to spot VRP for the entry into a narrow channel of airspace. It's a little easier to see when approaching from the south.

It probably won't make you feel any better but you're certainly not the first to infringe there; I've heard two others on the radio over the past year doing similar. Bornemouth always seems to be helpful when required as you discovered.

Thanks for sharing your experiances. It's always good to read of actual situations and how they occured so that lessons can be learned. I'm sure you've learnt a few ;)
User avatar
By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#542990
[quote='alanevans']Leia -- until I got half way down your post, I thought it was a jokey list of things that can go wrong; then I realised it had hppened to you for real.[/quote]

Yes, I realised that, when I sat down to work out what had gone wrong!

Frustrating to see that I fell into the same all trap of lots of little mistakes adding up.

[quote='Moose']Out of interest, was the VRP you planned on using Stoney Cross?[/quote]

Yep.

I personally hate disused airfields as either planned waypoints or VRPs because unless you've already seen it you never know whether it's going to be "three massive runways that look almost useble" or "lines in the grass like something off Time Team" :?

All a learning experience I suppose, albeit an embarassing one.

One of the things that stuck out to me as a big suprise was how hard it was to poinpoint position on the GPS without the aid of an actual track line drawn. I thought (mistakenly) it'd be relatively easy to crosscheck the GPS against the chart, but I idn't find that at all.
By oops
#543003
Having spotted the airfield from about 10nm out, I called up the A/G announcing a right base join. As I got closer, no cars, no vulcan. I'd mistaken Stratford for Wellesbourne and flown right into the big black circle I'd drawn on my chart representing a nearby TRA. ****.

I'm fairly anal about my VFR planning and I'd been matching multiple landmarks right the way up from Devon. Just goes to show it can happen to the best of us.
User avatar
By Gertie
#543018
leiafee wrote:I personally hate disused airfields as either planned waypoints or VRPs because unless you've already seen it ...

I'm sure you do really know about taking a Google Earth printout with you ...
User avatar
By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#543023
Gertie wrote:
leiafee wrote:I personally hate disused airfields as either planned waypoints or VRPs because unless you've already seen it ...

I'm sure you do really know about taking a Google Earth printout with you ...


Well this comes back to the fact that we made the decision on the day about where we were going. We had a quick look at the airfield on Googlemaps aeial photography, but didn't think of checking the VRP as well.

Something for next time.
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#543050
would you mind if I copied it into the flyontrack 'site' ? (or you could!) We welcome 'it happened to me' stories, and this is really useful - some of your GPS stuff is what I warn about on my classes! - and the good news is that you'll never do this again the 'good way' (ie: you are 'around' to do the same mistake again, but you won't - there are mistakes where you could never make them again... :cry: !)

Was the airfield Stony Cross (or Tarrant Rushden)?
User avatar
By Dave Phillips
#543058
I think we've all been 'there'. Personally it is the bit before getting in the aircraft where things go wrong. If am rushed (because Herself is late, I'm stuck in traffic, I need to refuel the aircraft, I have difficulty paying landing fees etc), I start to wonder how well prepared I am for flying. If I then get airborne with the same feeling, then I'm pretty sure that my flying, at best, will be average. All of the stuff that happened to you once you were airborne was almost inevitable. Throw in a rough running engine or even just an unusual temp/pressure/suction/volts reading and you are starting to work very hard.
User avatar
By vintage ATCO
#543059
[pedant]

. . . or Tarrant Rushton?

[/pedant]

:D
User avatar
By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#543063
vintage ATCO wrote:[pedant]

. . . or Tarrant Rushton?

[/pedant]

:D

Yes, I knew I didn't know how to spell it and thought spelling it incorrectly on here was the best way to find out...
User avatar
By leiafee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#543080
[quote='Irv Lee']would you mind if I copied it into the flyontrack 'site' ? (or you could!) We welcome 'it happened to me' stories, and this is really useful - some of your GPS stuff is what I warn about on my classes! - and the good news is that you'll never do this again the 'good way' (ie: you are 'around' to do the same mistake again, but you won't - there are mistakes where you could never make them again... :cry: !)

Was the airfield Stony Cross (or Tarrant Rushden)?[/quote]

I was thinking of cross-posting it on FlyOnTrack anyway, so yes, I'll get around to that this evening.

It was indeed Stoney Cross I failed to find.
User avatar
By AfricanEagle
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#543097
Leia,

I am correct in understanding that you were depending on the gps with the map as a backup, not vice versa?

Any way, a good experience, no harm done, it will make a better pilot out of you :)

Reminds me of when I couldn't find my destination airfield, and had to divert in near darkness.
User avatar
By yawningdog
#543123
Even if you had planned the flight perfectly, you may still have missed that VRP. Focusing too much on trying to find a VRP can distract and disorientate a pilot even further. The best thing to do is tell ATC immediately, which you did.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'm based at Bournemouth and when I approach or leave the airfield by the north I tend to request a direct track entry to/from the north, and avoid using VRPs altogether. I always find Tarrant Rushton for instance, to be like a needle in a haystack, and would prefer to be using the time concentrating on setting up for the climb or the circuit.

I flew into Booker the other day for the 1st time and was asked to find "the golden globe" or something. I knew exactly where I was relative to the airfield but had no idea where the VRP was, so gave my position to ATC and joined the circuit as normal.

Communication communication communication. That's the key. Everyone makes mistakes.