Gertie wrote:Well, they'll know that you're not admitting to being lost
It worked for us anyway, they didn't talk to us again until we requested a frequency change back to Andrewsfield.
FLYER Club Member
Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:18 am
#537987
I think they start assuming you're lost and not admitting it if you ask for multiple "practice" fixes or QDMs!
Jonathan
The views I express here are entirely my own and are not intended to represent my employer.
The views I express here are entirely my own and are not intended to represent my employer.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:04 am
#537998
Moli wrote:I am surprised that as you were lost, you did not call 121.5 Mhz D&D.... Has your instructor covered this with you?
Moli
Are you guys feeling lonely at D&D? I promise to give you a practice PAN and my next outing
(which may not be a practice depending on my knowledge of my actual position)Welcome to my mind.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:28 pm
#538147
Not at all Nobby... we dont just do D&D, we also work downstairs in the Main Military Ops room doing regular ATC stuff. I was just curious why when someone was lost they called two other units without calling a unit that has capacity, kit & personnel specifically trained / designed to help pilots that are lost.
I have heard of Student pilots getting airborne without being briefed about D&D & its facilities, I was curious if this was one such occassion.
Anyway who are you outing.... anyone we know?
Moli
I have heard of Student pilots getting airborne without being briefed about D&D & its facilities, I was curious if this was one such occassion.
Anyway who are you outing.... anyone we know?
Moli
Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:34 pm
#538238
[quote='Moli']JG
Did you actually tell anyone you were lost or just ask for a QDM? I am surprised that as you were lost, you did not call 121.5 Mhz D&D.... Has your instructor covered this with you?
Moli[/quote]
Yes I have done a practise PAN with you before now with my instructor so I knew how to do one if needed. My instructor also briefed me on that before I left. I suppose I just never got around to D+D but it was in the back of my head just incase I needed you.
As some of you have said above, once you ask for a QDM they realise somthing is not quite right so they reccomended me to go on to Brize Norton, which I did. It just went on from there...
[quote='nigelisom']JenkinGeorge
I was passing by on route to Shobden (above the cloud I am happy to say) and I was talking to Brize for an RIS, I overheard the last bits of your adventure as you were vectored towards Gloucester. Whilst I gathered what must of happened, you sounded very calm and in control on the radio so I say well done for handling a potentially bad situation absolutely correctly and ending up with good result. I also say well done to Brize Radar for their accurate and reassuring messages to you and I was very happy to "stand by" while they dealt with you.
Lastly I say well done to your instructor for giving you the opportunity to regain your confidence flying back to Shobden.
Nigel Isom[/quote]
Thank you very much and i'm very sorry for making you wait. I'm glad I did'nt sound too bad on the radio and yes they were brilliant at Brize Norton, after turing onto the new heading they let me know that I was looking good for Gloucester, which may not sound alot, but at the time meant alot to me!
And as for the practise QDM's, after what happened to me, I won't be ashamed of asking for help again should I need to (hopefully not in the near future), I will be far more ashamed if I did not get help and anything worse happened...
-JenkinGeorge
Did you actually tell anyone you were lost or just ask for a QDM? I am surprised that as you were lost, you did not call 121.5 Mhz D&D.... Has your instructor covered this with you?
Moli[/quote]
Yes I have done a practise PAN with you before now with my instructor so I knew how to do one if needed. My instructor also briefed me on that before I left. I suppose I just never got around to D+D but it was in the back of my head just incase I needed you.
As some of you have said above, once you ask for a QDM they realise somthing is not quite right so they reccomended me to go on to Brize Norton, which I did. It just went on from there...
[quote='nigelisom']JenkinGeorge
I was passing by on route to Shobden (above the cloud I am happy to say) and I was talking to Brize for an RIS, I overheard the last bits of your adventure as you were vectored towards Gloucester. Whilst I gathered what must of happened, you sounded very calm and in control on the radio so I say well done for handling a potentially bad situation absolutely correctly and ending up with good result. I also say well done to Brize Radar for their accurate and reassuring messages to you and I was very happy to "stand by" while they dealt with you.
Lastly I say well done to your instructor for giving you the opportunity to regain your confidence flying back to Shobden.
Nigel Isom[/quote]
Thank you very much and i'm very sorry for making you wait. I'm glad I did'nt sound too bad on the radio and yes they were brilliant at Brize Norton, after turing onto the new heading they let me know that I was looking good for Gloucester, which may not sound alot, but at the time meant alot to me!
And as for the practise QDM's, after what happened to me, I won't be ashamed of asking for help again should I need to (hopefully not in the near future), I will be far more ashamed if I did not get help and anything worse happened...
-JenkinGeorge
Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:07 pm
#538245
JG
Glad it worked out okay and that Brize gave you sterling service. Can i just plant the seed that if you should ever find yourself in that situation again instead of calling another ATC unit call D&D straight off.... they are usually far better placed than an airfield to be able to get you back on track. We can usually tell where you are within few miles just from your transmission by DF. We also have the manpower assests to "look after you" until you are completely happy with where you are.... usually one on one. You wont ordinarily get that from any other ATC unit.
If you are in the south of the UK why not come & visit us, very easy to arrange ..... just let me know.
Moli
Glad it worked out okay and that Brize gave you sterling service. Can i just plant the seed that if you should ever find yourself in that situation again instead of calling another ATC unit call D&D straight off.... they are usually far better placed than an airfield to be able to get you back on track. We can usually tell where you are within few miles just from your transmission by DF. We also have the manpower assests to "look after you" until you are completely happy with where you are.... usually one on one. You wont ordinarily get that from any other ATC unit.
If you are in the south of the UK why not come & visit us, very easy to arrange ..... just let me know.
Moli
Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:38 pm
#538308
I assume that H&S put a stop to the dribbly candles and vats of chicken blood long ago.
Nevertheless the magic of D&D will prevail, I hope.
Always a nice, warm feeling to know you guys are there
Nevertheless the magic of D&D will prevail, I hope.
Always a nice, warm feeling to know you guys are there
We both know it's not your fault
That doesn't mean I'm not blaming you
That doesn't mean I'm not blaming you
Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:51 pm
#538315
Hi JG,
I'm glad that it worked out well for you. I had to call D&D on my first solo flight as a PPL and they were absolutely fantastic.
The situation was slightly tense, but it gave me a lot of confidence to know that a fantastic service was availble if needed. My second flight went off very well, but when I was returning to my airfield, I had to fly through quite a bit of rain and visibility was not as good as I would have liked it to be.
But due to my experience of being "temporarily unsure" in the first flight, I was not that frightened. Needless to say, I made it back safe and sound and without any mishaps. Those first two flights were challenging and a great learning experience.
As people mentioned to me at the time, it is better to experience challenging conditions earlier in your flying career as it makes you realise that one has to be careful and not get too complacent and risk flying into CAS, being a nuisance and a potential danger to others.
I'm glad that it worked out well for you. I had to call D&D on my first solo flight as a PPL and they were absolutely fantastic.
The situation was slightly tense, but it gave me a lot of confidence to know that a fantastic service was availble if needed. My second flight went off very well, but when I was returning to my airfield, I had to fly through quite a bit of rain and visibility was not as good as I would have liked it to be.
But due to my experience of being "temporarily unsure" in the first flight, I was not that frightened. Needless to say, I made it back safe and sound and without any mishaps. Those first two flights were challenging and a great learning experience.
As people mentioned to me at the time, it is better to experience challenging conditions earlier in your flying career as it makes you realise that one has to be careful and not get too complacent and risk flying into CAS, being a nuisance and a potential danger to others.
Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:58 pm
#538334
Jonathon
When i had a similar amount of hours as you have I do remember saying to an instructor from the same club (HAC) after he flew me through some very poor weather.
. "You should be ashamed of yourself "(and he was).
33 years later I still believe that it is an instructors responsiblity to ensure the weather is suitable for a solo navigation student to fly in.
I have never put a student in the position that this student found himself, nor would I.
In regard to contacting 121.5 It is good to call for help early rather than later but do make an attempt to establish your position first.
When i had a similar amount of hours as you have I do remember saying to an instructor from the same club (HAC) after he flew me through some very poor weather.
. "You should be ashamed of yourself "(and he was).
33 years later I still believe that it is an instructors responsiblity to ensure the weather is suitable for a solo navigation student to fly in.
I have never put a student in the position that this student found himself, nor would I.
In regard to contacting 121.5 It is good to call for help early rather than later but do make an attempt to establish your position first.
Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:08 pm
#539706
[b]JG[/b] - your name will be at the top of my list for the next trip to D&D (to be arranged asap) so keep a lookout on the noticeboard. :)
[b]Moli,[/b] I can't seem to contact you via email, the fault is likely to be at my end, please could you contact me then it might work on the "reply to" button.
[b]Moli,[/b] I can't seem to contact you via email, the fault is likely to be at my end, please could you contact me then it might work on the "reply to" button.
