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By adamkpplir
#1787214
Irv Lee wrote:Engine/fuel management isn't usually taught in the uk at ppl level.


Very interesting to read. I did my IR in a Piper Arrow and still didn't 'learn' about leaning the mixture in the cruise or indeed on the ground during taxiing. It wasn't until I had the chance to hire a TB20 for IFR flights that I saw the leaning of the mixture procedures being implemented. Indeed in the checklists, the various cruise power settings included the fuel flow as well which would be achieved by leaning the mixture. I do remember thinking that I wish I'd been introduced to it at an earlier point in my career. Would it be too much to ask for everyone to teach it thoroughly at PPL level?
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By Irv Lee
#1787310
adamkpplir wrote: Would it be too much to ask for everyone to teach it thoroughly at PPL level?

I am guessing 2 reasons why not, the RAF cannot have done it in 1960 so we can't now, obviously, and also it might be a bit hard to get round this:
Irv Lee wrote:He leaned before releasing the brake and the UK instructor went off his head, and said he would get out if the guy touched the mixture again during the whole flight.
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By Rob P
#1787383
To be fair the instrumentation in the average trainer allows for nothing more sophisticated than

Pull it out - splutter - push it back a little

But even this is better than running fully rich

Rob P
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1787385
Rob P wrote:To be fair the instrumentation in the average trainer allows for nothing more sophisticated than

Pull it out - splutter - push it back a little

But even this is better than running fully rich

Rob P


When we first started operating a Maule from DTY Spaceport Int'l we had no sophisticated engine monitor so we leaned it on increased power output as measured by a barely noticeable increase in MP and then enricht it a bit. That worked fine and after a few flights you knew exactly how far to pull the mixture out by feel and reference to the location of the knob on one's finger.

Some serious hobbying and money later we had a 6 cylinder engine monitor with all whistles and bells.

Guess where the mixture knob was by using the accurate measuring method.......Indeed, turned out it was exactly the same location.
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By Irv Lee
#1787395
I flew a Rutan Long-Ez for a few years with internal glass fuel tubes linked straight into the tanks.... if i didn't lean as soon as straight and level at any altitude I could see how fast it went down, and after leaning, how little it used. Just a matter of thinking about power at the lower altitudes, not altitude per-se.
UK training is an environmental disgrace in this area when you think about it.
I only taught ab-inito PPL for 3-4 years in the 90s, since, other than a bit of FI cover, it has been mostly post-ppl. For those three years I taught leaning non-aggressively as a natural part of learning to fly, it can not be done perfectly in a PA28-140 but it can be done to embed it as a natural thinking process.
I remember in a PPL Masterclass where I pass around fouled plugs and a clean but insulator-broken one for inspection when mentioning power checks and how to try and clean the fouled ones, and half of the 8 UK qualified pilots didn't know fouled plugs might be cleared - they would not have tried, but the 3 SA pilots there couldn't believe that a bad power check could be due to plug fouling - it certainly wouldn't be with them back home, as from day one they lean before releasing brakes and lean again as they vacate the runway before taxi-ing back. It was a revelation to them that the aircraft they are renting might have been taxied back to parking last time without leaning.
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By rusty eagle
#1787492
I know of one fatal accident during the 1976 heat wave where it seemed that the glider tug pilot failed to lean for density altitude, causing an over rich mixture and plug fouling. On climb out over pine trees, in a high drag biplane, the engine failed. Not been able to find an account of this, but was a member of that club and that's how it was told to me.
By riverrock
#1787532
Irv Lee wrote:I am guessing 2 reasons why not, the RAF cannot have done it in 1960 so we can't now, obviously

Assuming they were using bulldogs then, leaning is described and expected according to all the documentation. One of my instructors was ex RAF - I was taught to lean from the beginning ( on various aircraft ).

I suspect the issue is some PA28 handbooks suggest not leaning below X feet and all PPL training is done below that level.
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1787558
Density altitude! ;-)

There's a hole in my bucket...

RR, first flight of the Bulldog was 1969, with the RAF getting theirs from 1974 to 1976...
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By Rob P
#1787559
They only got two years use out of them?

Rob P
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By riverrock
#1787565
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
RR, first flight of the Bulldog was 1969, with the RAF getting theirs from 1974 to 1976...

Ah - ours first flew in 1973 and I knew it wasn't first batch - I believe it was on the production line alongside RAF ones, but as the company demonstrator it was constantly getting changed at the factory.

I know the chippies automatically set mixture to rich when you retarded the throttle so I assume the mixture wasn't also treated just as a a way to cut fuel at shutdown?

All before my time though!
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