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By Anon
#1746608
I have always used QFE around the circuit rather than QNH, but once recently I forgot to change back to QFE after transitting controlled airspace on QNH; I only realised when I was joining crosswind from the deadside at 400 ft rather than 800ft circuit height :oops: .

So, bearing in mind the recent discussion(s) on the forum about using QNH, the next time I went flying I set the airfield elevation (400ft) on the altimeter before take-off, to do a few circuits before some local flying. It was a pretty windy day, straight down the runway, so I wasn't really surprised that we were going up like a lift. Passing the usual house, I turned crosswind and continued the climb, levelled at 800 ft and then it dawned on me - yes, 800 ft on the QNH was just 400 ft AAL. :oops: :oops: :oops:

What did I learn fom this? Don't try to change the habits of 25 years based on an online discussion forum. Stick with how you were trained and how you've always done it since, or risk confusing yourself even more than the increasing years do!
By JoeC
#1749016
Been there done that. Transitioning from Doncaster Sheffield To Netherthorpe. Made my approach call to Netherthorpe (I remember thinking that the picture looked different) and an instructor flying and obviously visual with me responded over the radio with a simple, if exasperated, "QFE!"
By CAT4R4TTA
#1749025
QFE is another "hey, is the UK way".

I can't possibly name another place in the world where this is used. I think in the US they don't even know what it means.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1749038
The very reason why using the QFE is a naff idea is demonstrated amply by the experience described in the first paragraph.

Reverting to unsafe practise may not be everyone's idea of a good one.
By rusty eagle
#1749400
I'll stick to the my ingrained habit, starting over forty years ago flying gliders, of setting QFE as part of pre flight checks and for returning to the airfield. I see the value of using QNH but I'll stick with what works for me.
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By PeteSpencer
#1749523
I always check QFE and derive QNH at our strip in the flatlands before departure : I amend QNH in the air by listening out to large airfields I'm passing if necessary.

Having noted QFE on departure it's the simplest thing to bung it in for landing back: saves any mental arithmetic. Its unlikely to change much in the course of the day.

Funnily enough though , if I'm landing away or flying IFR I use QNH and don't give QFE a second thought.

Peter :roll:
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By adamkpplir
#1786826
As still what I would deem to be quite a low hours pilot, but one who was trained by a highly experienced instructor, I think the mantra of sticking with what you were taught is best. For what it’s worth, I was instructed for all my ppl training (under VFR) to use QNH on departure (unless going into the circuit in which case set QFE on the ground) and when approaching your destination, set the QFE when you get good visual contact with the airfield itself. IFR training though, QNH all the way!!

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with that procedure I described for VFR, but I can just say that I valued being taught that by a highly experienced instructor and that mantra hasn’t failed me in the 8 years I’ve been lucky enough to have my licence.
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By Irv Lee
#1786879
This reminds me of a constant dilemma I have with pilots and mixture. Quite often I only fly with them for an hour. Engine/fuel management isn't usually taught in the uk at ppl level. I do not understand why not. After 45+ hours of using the mixture as an on/off switch for the engine, I worry that if I try and introduce it in a brief encounter, under pressure for some reason later, a pilot will revert and forget they are leaned in a descent into the circuit. I wonder how much fuel is wasted and sent partially burned into the atmosphere each year because we dumb down on this (for no obvious reason at the ab initio stage)- must be massive.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1786890
Irv Lee wrote:we dumb down on this (for no obvious reason at the ab initio stage)


Whoever thought this out must have done the sums and thought that the fuel costs did not outweigh those of engine mismanagement.

That might have been true when an imperial gallon was dispensed for 2/6 but certainly not these days both on financial and environmental costs based alone.

However we are a slow lot and love folklore.

If we all did ab initio training behind a Lycoming IO-540 we would all learn very quickly that the mixture control should be called 'the moneystick'
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By Irv Lee
#1786897
I know an SA pilot (always trained to lean for taxi so not to oil up the plugs as they will never exceed power limitations on taxi) who was being checked for rental. He leaned before releasing the brake and the UK instructor went off his head, and said he would get out if the guy touched the mixture again during the whole flight. (tempting...)
Flyin'Dutch' wrote: dispensed for 2/6

for those who don't understand, he means a florin and tanner
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By Rob P
#1786932
Irv Lee wrote:This reminds me of a constant dilemma I have with pilots and mixture.


But @Irv EVERYBODY knows that even touching the mixture control below 3,001ft will result in the painful demise of several dozen unbearably cute puppies.

What I have never been able to establish is if this is on the QNH or the QFE.

Can you help? Pro bono, of course.

Rob P
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By Irv Lee
#1786938
Rob P wrote:
Irv Lee wrote:This reminds me of a constant dilemma I have with pilots and mixture.


But @Irv EVERYBODY knows that even touching the mixture control below 3,001ft will result in the painful demise of several dozen unbearably cute puppies.

What I have never been able to establish is if this is on the QNH or the QFE.

Can you help? Pro bono, of course.

Rob P

payment in advance for this sort of info...
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1786939
Irv Lee wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote: dispensed for 2/6

for those who don't understand, he means a florin and tanner


Blimey, that's half a crown!

Back in Irv's day you could get a loaf of bread, two pints of milk, three packets of bacon, a couple of packets of sausages, a dozen eggs, a large block of cheese and a couple of tins of beans for that.

These days, they have too many security cameras.
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By Rob P
#1786945
Irv Lee wrote:payment in advance for this sort of info...


Those poor little puppies will be on your conscience

Rob P