[Talkdownman]

And all that using only CADF!

I have yet to see a Speechless NCNG Emergency QGH...!

Is NCNG a standard part of an approach controller's repertoire, and its just Area controllers who don't know it?

Probably the latter. I was taught it on the Approach Radar Course prior to the Area Radar Course. In those days we had to be able to do all sorts of magic using D/F traces, and without secondary radar. Perhaps NCNG has been erroneously perceived as part of only an Approach Radar controller's arsenal. Everybody ended up with both radar ratings in those days so most people had had a go at it at some time, either on the Hurn sim or by using the DH Dove targets for real. When economics required specialisation in either Approach radar control or Area radar control maybe it didn't feature in the syllabus for the latter. That's when the expertise rot set in.

[GonzoEGLL]

It was on the Approach Radar course in '98/'99

[Grelly]

Out of interest, why 0030? Why not, say, 7300?

[pullup]

I remember once when I was inbound to Prestwick in “my” little Baron seeing the DG compass on the HSI begin to look a bit suspicious. I tried a few gentle turns and yes it had frozen.
I then spent a few silly moments wondering how to do the ILS with a stuck HSI. With only a few miles to go to the ILS. The workload was starting to build!
When I told the controller, he didn’t hesitate one second and immediately gave me a No Gyro, No Compass SRA. The weather was a bit naff!
His quick thinking, quicker than mine, reduced the ever rising workload considerably.

[pullup]

Out of interest, why 0030? Why not, say, 7300?

I guess it is because it is an allocated squawk...i.e. allocated to D&D for their use?

[Talkdownman]

It was on the Approach Radar course in '98/'99

Were the 'area radar-only' ATCOs taught S/Less and NCNG etc as part of emergency training? If not, why not?

[PaulSS]

If the type is a SE fast jet with a flame-out it could be an exciting steep approach, 1000ft/mile, known as a 'One-in-one', which makes an SRA or a PAR rather interesting especially when it's well above GP cover on the PAR.

Yeovilton used to be brilliant at them. We'd quite often do speechless, no compass, no gyro, flame out PFLs in the Hunter. ATC would vector us into the 'funnel' and once we'd got onto the 1 in 1 they'd get us onto the centreline and down we'd go. They'd call for the gear, which we'd simulate lowering on the emergency system and that kept us nicely on the (steep) glidepath. I can't remember for sure but I think we used to use a minimum of 400' but ATC would just keep talking even after you'd passed that height....and they were spot on. The hard bit for us was flying the Hunter in manual i.e. we used to turn off the flight control hydraulics, as with an engine failure you'd lose them as there was no RAT. One might say the controls were a trifle heavy You couldn't quite do the same in the Sea Harrier as it had all the gliding qualities of a bunch of car keys and would have needed a tad more than 1 in 1.....at 300 kts......and then you had to try and stop with no reverse thrust and brakes akin to the average bicycle. Martin Baker was much easier

Back on topic though, I'd never heard of 0030 either and it's 35 years for me too

[pullup]

List of all allocated sqawks
http://www.flightradars.eu/squawkcodes.html

[Longfinal]

And all that using only CADF!

I have yet to see a Speechless NCNG Emergency QGH...!

I certainly remember being thrown a speechless NCNG, CADF only in the sim at Shawbury in the late 70s.

[chevvron]

And all that using only CADF!

I have yet to see a Speechless NCNG Emergency QGH...!

I saw one once during my PAR course at Shawbury. During a 'lull' in PAR training, the three of us (two guys from Boscombe Down were on the course with me) were used as input operators on the QGH sim for a trainee instructor to do a s/less NCNG 'controlled descent through cloud' as they called it by then (1984).
(Damn; Longfinal just beat me to it I blame it all on the Wintery Lympics)

[GonzoEGLL]

It was on the Approach Radar course in '98/'99

Were the 'area radar-only' ATCOs taught S/Less and NCNG etc as part of emergency training? If not, why not?

I don’t know if they did it in the sim, we did.

They were certainly taught the theory.

[kanga]

Recommended, as ever:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd

includes 'flying triangles when NORDO'

[condor17]

Kanga , thumbs up for The Shepherd .
PaulSS , raise you one and see you for 47 yrs no knowledge , and 'destructing as well !
P.S. Are u SS of W. Oz , speaking Japanese ; and lately of Big Bad Awys ? If so , rgds dave f , retired and sometimes talking to YVL from Wessex skies .

rgds condor .

[PaulSS]

Haha, yeah that's the one, Dave, but 'speaking Japanese' only involves the age-old phrase "two beers please and my friend will pay"

There's far too many flyable days in WA, so my wife has decided we should return to the UK (now leaving BA does not seem such a great plan) so I may well catch up one of these fine days. Plan A involves building a Eurofox in England (it's the only way she could get me to move back) so hopefully we'll be able to arrange a get-together and bore each other with tales of derring do.

47 years!!! I don't think my parents were born then

[aberdeen_taffy]

Page 131 of the SkyWay Code details Lost Squawk code - well worth a read front to back if you've not read it already....
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAA6395_Skyway_Code_AW_160817_PRINT.pdf