[Gerard Clarke]

No one here has asserted that the IMC rating can be used overseas. The point is that the UK PPL restriction on flight out of sight of the service does not apply when the PPL has an IMC rating. You appear to be looking at the wrong part of the ANO.

Which bit about estoppel did I mis read?

[Gerard Clarke]

Well, I don't know how property people construe legislation, but when practising lawyers do it they refer to the relevant bits and do not worry about the irrelevant bits.

Article 123(1)(c) indicates that :-

"insofar as [the provisions of the order] prohibit, require or regulate (whether by express reference or otherwise) the doing of anything by persons in, or by any of the crew of, any aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, [the provisions] shall apply to such persons and crew, wherever they may be"

Nothing there to affect the removal of the restriction on a PPL-IMC flying out of sight of Planet Earth. On the contrary, Schedule 8 regulates the doing of something by a PPL-IMC: it does this by allowing flight out of sight of the surface. That regulation applies wherever the PPL may be.

[Gerard Clarke]

Here is the full text of Article 123 (1) in its current form, from Butterworths Lexis pay to view online database. It can also be read as a pdf document at the CAA website. In what way does the version you are looking at differ?

123 Extra-territorial effect of the Order

(1) Except where the context otherwise requires, the provisions of this Order:

(a) insofar as they apply (whether by express reference or otherwise) to aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, shall apply to such aircraft wherever they may be;


(b) insofar as they apply as aforesaid to other aircraft shall apply to such other aircraft when they are within the United Kingdom or on or in the neighbourhood of an offshore installation;


(c) insofar as they prohibit, require or regulate (whether by express reference or otherwise) the doing of anything by persons in, or by any of the crew of, any aircraft registered in the United Kingdom, shall apply to such persons and crew, wherever they may be;


(d) insofar as they prohibit, require or regulate as aforesaid the doing of anything in relation to any aircraft registered in the United Kingdom by other persons shall, where such persons are Commonwealth citizens, British protected persons or citizens of the Republic of Ireland, apply to them wherever they may be; and


(e) insofar as they prohibit, require or regulate as aforesaid the doing of anything in relation to any aircraft on or in the neighbourhood of an offshore installation, shall apply to every person irrespective of his nationality or, in the case of a body corporate, of the law

[Steve Morley]

insofar zzzz - I am so glad I gave that business up!

It seems several Forumites have used the loophole, if it is one, to fly VFR on top in France and, as Gerard sez, its the only thing done. There seems to be no argument for using the IMC, just applying local VFR rules as your onw "out of sight of the surface" restriction is lifted, albeit ambiguously. insofar insofar insofar

The latest GASIL, unlike usual GASILS is clear and unambiguous at least when it comes to France.

If I can next week, I will.

(If the CAA reply in the negative after I have gone, can someone tell me?)

[Keef]

Nowt here has changed my opinion or intentions regarding flying over cloud layers in France.

I hope the chewing gum will do the job with the oil and that you have a good trip to the terre des grenouilles.

[Steve Morley]

Cheers Keef. Or should I say Salut!

[Gerard Clarke]

The grannies have gone a bit quiet. Are they just having a lie down, or is it one of those "lay unnoticed for a week, partly eaten by cat" scenarios?

[Guest]

You paint such a lovely picture

[Gerard Clarke]

Self censorship? Or is 2 Donkeys feeling frisky?

[Guest]

I'm afraid that the old girls have been suffering from a tragic case of multiple personality disorder for a while. The additional twist of having developed a personality that is also a moderator ought to baffle the medics even more.