[Retard, Retard]

Ok, so you're at the hold at an FISO controlled airfield. You call ready for departure and get no reply. You call again and no reply again. You've been there 5 minutes with no reply and a queue of aircraft behind you, but nothing on approach. What do you do? Carry on waiting or enter backtrack and exit or just take-off?

Also, 1 mile final. No 'land your discretion' or any other call in fact. Do you go-around or land?

[Gerard Clarke]

Like the man said. FISO control? no such thing, at least when it comes to departing or arriving.

Seeing that you are in London, I bet I can guess which airfield this was....

[Dave Phillips]

A little less problematic than if the FISO tells you to hold for no apparant reason - something that happened to me at a South West London GA airfiled a while back.

[Chilli Monster]

Heard at a FISO airfield a couple of weekends back - "Clear cross at your discretion".

If you weren't confused before - you would be then

As others have said - look up the approach, look down the runway - go, and I wouldn't have waited anywhere near 5 minutes.

[kirstey]

My favourite was at Lydd... "Cleared imediate take off at your discretion" - Had their ATS inspector in the back with me at the time as well!

[Timothy]

Hmmmm....

I'm going to stick my neck out here, but I think that you are all wrong.

If you are at the hold, on the taxiway side, you may not cross the hold and enter the runway without FISO clearance. Ironically, the FISO cannot tell you whether to take off or land, but can control you on the taxiways.

Similarly, I think that the a/c on approach may land, but then may not taxi off the runway.

I know this sounds topsy-turvy, but I think it's the way it is.

I think your best bet is to transmit "Anytown Information going off-watch, now Anytown Radio" in the best imitation you have of the FISOs voice, and hope no-one's looking at the DF!

[Fishhead]

FISOs may issue instructions to aircraft up to the Holding point prior to departure, and after the landing role is complete.

If you are waiting at the hold, you need permission to enter the runway, but not to take off (that is at the pilots discretion) An AFIS must be manned during the published hours therefore, you should not be kept waiting 5 minutes!

[wonko the sane]

If you are waiting at the hold, you need permission to enter the runway, [...] An AFIS must be manned during the published hours

Hmmm. I fly from the airfield that Gerald Clarke suspects you're talking about (I assume ). They regularly disappear off the air for a few minutes. In general, I'd call a couple of times, and then go (assuming noone on final or the runway). I'd air my intentions on to traffic first.

Problem is, often when they are on air, and you state "ready for departure", they use radio silence as a way to say "wait" instead of being explicit - so you never can tell.

[lelandv]

I have had similar experiences at the same aerodrome suspected...


The last time, I called "ready for departure" at least six times with absolutely bugger all in the circuit... finally I turned around and looked back at the tower (behind me over the left shoulder from the holding point) just to see the AFISO sitting there drinking his coffee just watching... Since I had been sitting at the holding point for some 10 mins already, finally I just announced "entering rwy XX to backtrack, lineup and depart"... Finally as I entered the runway the AFISO piped in "you may backtrack if you require"... (I thought to myself "why thank you very much for nuthin' !)

As I lined up and began my takeoff roll, the same AFISO then piped up "G-XX I did NOT clear you for takeoff !!!"

To which I replied "xxxxx *INFORMATION* you cannot *clear* me for takeoff... good day sir"

cheeky boy

L.

[Timothy]

Where is this awful sounding place? I want to put in an MOR based only on what I have seen here

Oh, I have just found:

I'm sure this is obvious, but, as I train out of Elstree,

[Indigo]

So since we continuously hear about the (dis)merits of a certain field in the London area, why has someone not had a word in the ear of ATS Standards and got them checked out officially ?

[Steve Morley]

If I had been waiting 5 minutes (awfully long time, 5 minutes) without anything being heard on the radio I would assume me radio was bust and blind transmit "G-xxxx at the hold no transmission heard for last five minutes taxxiing to maintenance".

If it is working you will probably get a response.

But again, I wouldn't wait 5 minutes.

[Vince C]

I can't beleive some of the stuff here. Most of you know I'm no fan of the FISO system, but that's because I consider it slows things down at busy VFR fields, not because of anything the individual FISOs do or don't do.

I've never suffered the appaling delays reported here at my home field, Barton (though I think the guy on on Saturday morning was a trainee, and was VERY cautious in allowing runway entry). The experienced guys are good - it's the system that's cr@p, not the FISOs.

If I'd I'd suffered what lelandv reports, with the FISO ignoring him and then complaining about him taking off without a clearance, I'd have initiated 2 actions:

1) A personal visit to the tower to put across my point of view of his abilities very strongly indeed. It would be an admonition he would not easily forget.

2) A complaint of incompetance aginst that FISO to whichever CAA department licences them.

Vince

[ginj]

Hi Chaps,

This guy does sound like a bit of a plonker. I agree with Vince, a polite word in the ear to see if there is a problem, he may not be aware of your displeasure and the possible implications of keeping aeroplanes waiting at the hold in hot weather.

If that doesnt work the next port of call should be the airfield management, they will be able to act more swiftly than ATS and monitor the situation afterwards more effectively.

Just my 2 cents...

Cheers

Ginj

(p.s. your right Vince and he is progressing very well. )