Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
User avatar
By Old Pilot
#61423
I'm one of the lucky ones...dozens of Channel Island trips in a single engine aircraft and I'm still alive. I know the 'automatic rough' sensation as I coast out.

I have also flown from Jersey to Cardiff at night in strong winds in winter when if the engine quit my chance of survival in the English Channel would be zero.

Sailing crews are faced with the same prospect.

So what can we learn from their survival techniques?
User avatar
By Rob P
#61447
There are those who swear by Blobby Suits.

Certainly seem a more practical alternative to dinghies dumped in the back of a four-up PA28 to me.

Rob P
By paulonils
#61451
Having attended a survival course.....it was said that being in a dinghy will give you better chance of survival than being in a "blobby" suit in the water. The biggest problem with a survival suit is being spotted in the water but at least you'll know that for a while before hypothermia sets in.
If you travel across water and have never done a survival course then I'd strongly urge you.....if only to know how to pull yourself and colleagues aboard a dinghy.
User avatar
By Steve H
#61468
Personally, flying any distance over a sea below 10 degrees temp or without a high density of shipping / oil rigs etc. or for serious distance, I would wear a "blobby suit" (I have one) AND have a liferaft - I don't see this as an "either / or" scenario.
Otherwise for a cross-channel hop, I would be happy with a liferaft only.

Of course we always WEAR an appropriate lifejacket.

I have attended a "dunking" course and found it very valuable and I did train in my blobby suit (and yes - it is VERY orange :shock: ).
User avatar
By Propwash
#61469
The one thing that always amazes me is the number of people that I know who rely on lifejackets that they have had for years but never tested or had serviced.
Pound to a pinch of the smelly stuff that they wouldn't work properly if needed. Maybe it's just like a comfort blanket to them? :?

PW
By Pilot Pete
#61489
Can't remember where, but I've seen a chart/table with suggested times and results of being immersed in various water temperatures.
I still do a reasonable amount of wakeboarding and kitesurfing through the winter months and can suggest that this time of year, without any kind of protection you may not be in a fit state to pull yourself into a life raft.
That's assuming that you managed to get it out of the a/c.
As has already been said it is important to be sure you can rely on the kit you do carry and sure that you can get to it.
User avatar
By Steve Morley
#61495
On the way back from Le2k today, my PIC decided to bugger around with the engine leaning :( He gave up as we were below the magic 3000ft anyway.
User avatar
By Mike Cross
#61797
Sailing crews are faced with the same prospect.

Not really. An engine failure on a sailing boat is no big deal at all. It just makes you late for the bar at the other end and requires a bit more foresight and planning for the landfall.

Engine failure AND dismasting is more of a problem but the disastrous Fastnet race taught all of us that you don't get out of the boat unless it is actually sinking beneath your feet. There were crews who had taken to the liferaft and died whent their yacht was later found waterlogged but still afloat. Unfortunately we do not get the same option in an aircraft.

To me the key things are

1. Survive the ditching
2. Stay afloat
3. Survive long enough to be rescued.

Factors affecting No 3 include flotation devices, warm clothing and minimising your time in the water by tranmitting an accurate fix before ditching, carrying an EPIRB and carrying something yachtsman always have but I have never seen being carried in a light aircraft, orange smoke flares.
By Bob
#61826
The lack of smoke flares in light a/c might have something to do with the way they are sometimes viewed by those in "authority".
Mate of mine was once cautioned for carrying explosives. He'd just come off a mountain and was seen packing his emergency flares away :roll:
By Guest
#61832
The lack of smoke flares in light a/c might have something to do with the way they are sometimes viewed by those in "authority".


The carriage of signal flares is mandatory in SEPs in certain FIRs. They will not get you into trouble with the authorities. The fact that you don't see them often has much more to do with PPLs being unprepared for sea crossings.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#61862
Having learnt to fly in the Canadian wilderness I still have some flares in my emergency kit - but seeing as they must be 25+ years old they are probably useless and I should buy some new ones.

In Canada one always flew with a survival kit, (good sheath knife, thermal blankets, axe, shovel, chemical stove, matches, flares etc) Many pilots also carried a rifle - both for protection against beasties and for attracting attention. (I never had one though).

Nowadays we worry about the cost / apearance of a blobby suite - we must be either stupid or eternal optimists.

Tom
User avatar
By Steve Morley
#61863
OK, say I ditch. I have a dinghy in the aircraft and when I cross the channel I put it in the back seat where it is easier to get than in the baggage bit.

Do I chuck it out just before ditching or are my chances better if I wait till we're down (risking a bloody heavy dinghy whacking me round the bonce)?

Should one of the passengers hold it on their lap?

Makes me want to go on that ditching course.
User avatar
By BlueRobin
#61865
Simple. A properly-equipped dinghy will extend your SURVIVAL from a few minutes to a few days

Given the amount of overwater flight by light GA, wonder if some Government agency would take up a safety initiative like this and set up a subsidised ditching/survival course. The MCA might do it. All you need is a dead airframe, dinghy and some time in a big pool.
User avatar
By Steve Morley
#61867
My point is, I dont want the aircraft to sink before I get the dinghy out and I dont want to be knocked out by it during ditching.

What's the most surviveable course of action?
By Guest
#61868
Simple.


That's alright then!

Deploying a dinghy and getting into one when you are up to your neck in icey water is much harder even than it sounds. Those are good questions that Steve asks, and you won't necessarily get all of the answers on a ditching course. So much is type dependent. What would work in a TB10 won't necessarily work in an Archer and vice versa.