[C172Navigator]

I'm planning a trip next week from a private site in Scotland to Newtonards. The sGAR guide states that a GAR is not required in this instance but that both police forces require 12 hour notification. How do I do that?

An AOPA email today suggested that submitting a GAR would notify the police, but this is not exactly clear from the online form if that happens or not.

And, if I do fill in a GAR what do I enter the departure/arrival to/from UK box - as I'm not leaving the UK.

I might just call Newtonards tomorrow but thought I'd ask here first.

Thanks.

[A le Ron]

At least you’re not going to Wales!

[GrahamB]

I went Scotland to Newtownards for two nights, then on to Welshpool back in May.
I sent an email to the Police at each end of each flight, using the mail addresses in one of the Appendices in the GAR guidance, and I still have my liberty!

[Mick Elborn]

C172Navigator - as you say, no GAR is required for flights between GB and NI. This being the case it isn't clear if the online GAR system will accept a GAR to/from NI and notify Police at either end. AOPA have asked the question but not received a response to this question.

Police contacts can be found in Annex B of this guidance.

[BoeingBoy]

Some of you really should join AOPA.
From the latest news email:


General Aviation Reports, sGAR and Border Force

AOPA asked for clarification from the Home Office Border Force as to whether the sGAR and other approved online GAR submission systems also notified Police services when required. After some delay AOPA got this reply:

“Those responsible for a GA international journey (including within the Common Travel Area (CTA)) are required to report or provide notification of their expected journey to Border Force, the police and HMRC. The information provided is shared between these relevant agencies under the statutory duty to share information in section 36 of the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006. Therefore if a GAR is submitted through sGAR or an approved 3rd party application as listed on https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... of-flights then the Police can have access to the data. The GA Guidance document on https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... of-flights does give detail about how this data is shared with partners such as the Police and also provides up to date contact information for the Police in all regions if needed.”

If police notification is required and you submit your GAR at least 12 hours before departure this will be done.

Note that no GAR is required for flights to/from Northern Ireland and Great Britain so separate police notification needs to be given separately. AOPA have asked if the GAR system can be used anyway to give the police notification and a reply is awaited.

It seems that some Border Force units are not particularly well organised and have met returning private flights to accuse the PIC of not submitting a GAR. I would therefore recommend that you keep a copy of you GAR submission acknowledgement with you on your flight.

I intend to raise a number of questions with the Home Office Border Force and will relay these and any answers to you.

[C172Navigator]

Thanks for the replies. I emailed the NI and Scottish police this morning. The Edinburgh based unit replied to say thanks and that I could send an sGAR.

From the email response: "For future reference you can submit sGAR through the UK government web portal."

Sending an email was easy though and as my base isn't recognised in the sGAR system an email is far easier than entering a bunch of coordinates.

[peterps0992]

I know this is a few days behind, but it was still not clear to me, particularly as AOPA didn't seem to be able to get a straight answer. I sent a question to both Avon&Somerset Police and PSNI, as I am likely heading over soon.

"Good morning,

I hope you can help answer a question regarding notification as I am finding the guidance provided by a UK Government document "General Aviation Guidance
April 2024" not particularly clear.

It is clear that Border Force DO NOT require a GAR for a flight between GB and NI, however the relevant Police authority requires 12 hour prior notification.

In the document it suggests information submitted is used by the police, implying that is is sent to them. However Annex C says the Police must be notified and lists Annex B for the contacts.

Question: If I use the sGAR Portal for a flight between Oaksey Park Wiltshire EGTW and NI, will you be routed the notification so that I am in compliance with the requirements?"

PSNI answer:
"Good Morning Peter,

Unfortunately the sGAR platform at this stage still does not automatically generate a notification to us. If you can screenshot the submission and then forward it on to ourselves that should keep you compliant."

No answer from Avon&Somerset yet.

[Peter Gristwood]

Sounds as good as our new IT system....

[FredFly]

I called Border Force last week and got two exactly opposite responses from two of their offices. I not only ask with whom I speaking, but I have a system which records all my inbound/outbound calls. If I ever have a problem, I'll use the recordings against them. I'm not going to fret too much over their "fines" bullsh*t. How enforceable are their rules, if they don't even know what they require.

[James Chan]

The general guideline is:

Intra-CTA flights - The relevant police force is interested.

Extra-CTA flights - UKBF and HMRC (for goods), or that country’s equivalent, are interested.

For the purposes of GAR, the CTA comprises of 5 “regions”: GB, NI, CI, IOM, and the ROI.

[2Donkeys]

As a Channel Islands Resident, I file a GAR (using sGAR) roughly 50 times a year (2 every fortnight or so) for trips to and from the UK. I always file with at least 12 hours notice, and never separately notify the police because I place reliance on the Home Office documentation which suggests that I don't have to. Very occasionally, I am met by Borderforce for a quick passport check. Very very occasionally I am called by Borderforce because they can't find a GAR. This is EXCLUSIVELY when I happen to be flying to or from a ZZZZ airfield and I have used a Lat/Long pair. The Police have never shown any interest at all. It could be that this is because they have no idea that my flights are happening, or because sGAR is working well and they are happy with me. Who knows?

From everything I hear, the system is as poorly designed and unhelpful from the average Police and Borderforce officer's point of view as it is from the pilot's point of view. They are users of the system in the same way that we are, and confusion reigns amongst them when it comes to how it works and exactly what the filing requirements are.

It is pretty obvious that the successes that occur occasionally when people-smuggling aircraft are busted by Borderforce are "Intelligence Led" and almost certainly have little to do with the GAR dance to which law-abiding pilots are subjected

[Ibra]

Intra-CTA flights - The relevant police force is interested.

You mean Police (not UKBF) are actively checking intra-CTA flights compliance now?I doubt Police were or are interested in these flights, the only reason we have this requirement and 12h is institutional inertia

I never saw Police on CTA flights but maybe Essex or Kent are not aware and it's more of a local problem elsewhere? while ago, I phoned Police number while ago if I can fly to Jersey with shorter notice (instead of landing at Southend), the guy on phone had no idea what I was talking about, he concluded the call by "talk to UKBF, if they are happy, we are happy"

Anyway, things are crystal clear in laws now, there is no need for separate Police notification if SGAR is submitted with correct notice (UKBF need to clean their guidance doc in line with the laws, I am puzzled they have no idea about Police requirements? I guess it's expected, it's not their business and they like to keep it grey or conservative to be on the safe side)

[Tall_Guy_In_a_PA28]

Intra-CTA flights - The relevant police force is interested.

You mean Police (not UKBF) are actively checking intra-CTA flights compliance now?I doubt Police were or are interested in these flights, the only reason we have this requirement and 12h is institutional inertia

I never saw Police on CTA flights but maybe Essex or Kent are not aware and it's more of a local problem elsewhere? while ago, I phoned Police number while ago if I can fly to Jersey with shorter notice (instead of landing at Southend), the guy on phone had no idea what I was talking about, he concluded the call by "talk to UKBF, if they are happy, we are happy"

I can assure you that the Police are very interested in GARs, but on a targeted basis. You are probably correct that they are not interested in YOUR flights, but they can hardly ask criminals to provide 12 hours notice and 1 hr for the rest of us. By 'Police', I am not talking about local plod checking if you have any unpaid parking tickets. The system primarily helps the National Crime Agency (supported by local officers) fight Organised Crime where a disproportionate level (gun running and money laundering in particular) occurs within the CTA.

Filing a GAR puts you on the radar figuratively, not filing a GAR will put you on the RADAR literally. It is a bit like US immigration forms that ask if you have terrorist affiliations. They already know the answer, but if you lie then you have immediately committed a a locally prosecutable offence which makes their life a whole lot easier.

None of which is to say that the system doesn't need a complete overhaul.

[Ibra]

There is no centralized system for separate Police notices, it's usually local plod who gets 12h notice (phone & email one will send to Kent or Essex Police), this is even more true now as data is no longer sent to NCU (email route is no longer around since 2023) and Special Branch is no longer around (since 2006)

So most of these separate notices just fly away regardless (I no longer send separate email to Police as they are not required under new amendement of TA2000 Act when SGAR is submitted on proper notice)


The stuff about criminal, money laundering, drug, interpol, guns, terrorisme...is always there in the background, I hope they have better tools than FPL, GAR?

On overhaul, there is not much to do now? other than making 12h -> 2h for intra-CTA flights

Bonus for overhaul, we can allow intra-CTA flights from any airport with 2h notice under some conditions (one has to look really hard to find legal basis why intra-CTA private flights require regulated aerodrome in the first place? say pob are Brit or Irish with no goods and no aircraft to declare)

[James Chan]

Yeap - formerly an email address for the "NCU" existed but that only included HMRC and UKBF, or whatever it was known back then. Then a separate notification, where required, needed to be sent to the relevant UK police depts.

The electronic GAR systems, when working, is supposed to notify all three departments.

I've had the police helicopter arrive at the same time as my flights on both directions. A friendly hello, and ID inspection was pretty much all that was needed. All took less than about 5 minutes, and we were free to go on our way.

other than making 12h -> 2h for intra-CTA flights

That would be very good indeed.