Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By timjenner
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912996
Hi,

Can anyone help with a question about medicals? I have read https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/ ... te-pilots/ and I think I understand - but want to be sure, and it's thoroughly confusing!

My situation is that I hold a Part-FCL PPL and my current Class 2 medical expires shortly - but I may not be able to renew it before it expires. Am I right in thinking I could submit a PMD and continue to fly after my current Class 2 expires and before it is renewed? It would be in the UK only, daytime VFR, in a G registered PA28 (so <2000kg and <3 passengers - but an EASA Part 21 aircraft, not permit)?

Assuming that's correct, does the PMD become valid immediately after submitted in Cellma, or would I need to submit it ahead of time? And is there any issue having both a PMD and a valid Class 2?

Many thanks,
Tim
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913000
If you are talking G reg'd, and the licence 'number' starts GBR, you are fine in part21 (what were called easa) aircraft) with a pmd and a few easy conditions (maum, vfr, etc). If 50yo or more, you have a lapl medical anyway automatically for a year following class 2 expiry, it can be used.with similar restrictions.
I think a pmd is instant if you already have cellma access on the mefical side
#1913001
You are correct.

Depending on your age, if your Class 2 is about to expire then there may be a longer date for LAPL which would cover you.

If not, then a PMD can be held independently or concurrently with a Part-MED Class 2/LAPL but only needs to be renewed when aged 70. It is valid immediately although you must carry the declaration with you when flying.

Valid on both Part-21 and Permit aircraft within UK airspace and in the Channel Islands.

There is no longer a specific ORS4 notice because it has been incorporated into the Air Navigation Order last year.

Arguably for private pilots who are not instructing, flying IFR or venturing abroad then a PMD will suffice. You can always return to an AME in the future if you did want to do one of those things.

Ref Air Law amendment
#1913012
DavidC wrote:It is valid immediately although you must carry the declaration with you when flying.


CAA Wesite wrote:While there is no legal obligation to carry the medical self-declaration page, we understand that some pilot's with to keep this with their licence for the purposes of evidencing their credentials.


ANO wrote:(4) The holder of a licence granted or rendered valid under this Order or by the CAA under the EASA Aircrew Regulation or of a medical certificate required under article 160 or article 162 orof a medical declaration under article 163 must, within a reasonable time after being requested to do so by an authorised person, cause the licence, including any certificate of validation issued under article 169, the medical certificate or the medical declaration, to be produced to that person.
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By timjenner
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913018
Many thanks, all. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) I'm under 50 so no extra LAPL year.

This is very interesting though - for my simple type of flying it seems that I could entirely avoid the cost and hassle of a medical every 2 years as long as I don't want to cross the Channel! I had the idea PMD was only for permits and national licenses but clearly things have changed and it's much more useful than I'd thought.

Thanks,
Tim
#1913019
..and the cost isn't just the cost of the medical.

There is a possibility you get a referral due to some minor thing (like some ECG output where computer says refer) and are grounded while you pay for tests and consultants to say you are perfectly fine.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913020
timjenner wrote:This is very interesting though - for my simple type of flying it seems that I could entirely avoid the cost and hassle of a medical every 2 years as long as I don't want to cross the Channel! I had the idea PMD was only for permits and national licenses but clearly things have changed and it's much more useful than I'd thought.

I've been flying a G-reg Part-21 aircraft on a PMD since my Class 2 expired in 2020.

I was going to renew it last year in time for a visit to Le Touquet, but France was still mandating masks outside, and we decided that would spoil the visit somewhat. So I still haven't got round to it.
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913024
timjenner wrote: I had the idea PMD was only for permits and national licenses but clearly things have changed and it's much more useful than I'd thought.

Clearly not a fan of my one sheet catch up, reluctantly extended to 2 pages for this, easa exit, and Covid! www.higherplane.co.uk/bfr-ground.pdf
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913030
Irv Lee wrote:
timjenner wrote: I had the idea PMD was only for permits and national licenses but clearly things have changed and it's much more useful than I'd thought.

Clearly not a fan of my one sheet catch up, reluctantly extended to 2 pages for this, easa exit, and Covid! http://www.higherplane.co.uk/bfr-ground.pdf

With the added benefit of being a ready-made test for whether you need reading glasses. :wink:
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913041
TopCat wrote:With the added benefit of being a ready-made test for whether you need reading glasses. :wink:

Well that is going to be the measure of how GA sympathetic and simplified these long promised licensing changes are! We have been promised simplification, not sympathetic, so i hope it doesn't reduce to one readable simple large sentence we don't like.
The page started in 2000, readable font, trying to explain unnecessarily committee-complicated revalidation of a 'rating' (wazzat ? The CAA never told anyone who had never had one - almost all ppl holders, for example). 2002 and 2007 brought more info for NPPL (first trying to explain rolling validity then killing it off ( :roll: )as no one with ssea was flying legally) but i doubt font readability suffered (must try and find an old one). 2012 onwards, each year brought more twist and turns and font reductions, some bad news but often a good thing as the CAA found ways to stop the bare Easa regulations hitting us without some sort of contorted help.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913051
Irv Lee wrote:2012 onwards, each year brought more twist and turns and font reductions

Irv, I've long felt that your web site content - and posts on this forum - are excellent, extremely helpful, and an absolutely superb service to pilots.

I really admire you for that, but to be honest, I do think that a bit of reorganisation for readability would make them even better. The same goes for your posts here. The content is excellent, but when the many abbreviations are lower case and the text jammed into one long paragraph, it's sometimes quite hard work to read.

The effort is more than worth it for the quality of the content, I hasten to add, but it would be nice not to have to work so hard :)
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By Irv Lee
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913053
Yes, every time i think i might do something (worst is the faq i thought.which evolved by slow growth) then yet another call with "you don't know me but ..." which can take follow up time - last week (prob week before now) it was CAA fclweb emailing 2 pilots (2 to my knowledge, but how many does that mean out there?) telling them they cannot fly ANY part21 aircraft on nppl ssea (or uk non fcl ppl). I usually end up deciding i cannot be bothered to spend time sorting out a free resource.
#1913161
As Irv says, Part-21, ie CofA aircraft are still subject to EASA regulation. National aviation authorities who are members have to follow their rules.

Non-CofA, Annex 1 historic and amateur-built aircraft can have national dispensations, such as France and Belgium, allowing the use of LAPLs etc. Most EC countries still require Class 2 medicals however.

We're continually updating advice, as much became out of date after Brexit and our leaving EASA.
Here's the link to LAA member advice: http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.08%20Travelling%20abroad%20in%20a%20Permit%20Aircraft.pdf
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