Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By peter-9363
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912910
The greatest challenges are tactical - where to clear customs, what time to give them (often 24hrs PNR), what route to take. Routes to Bordeaux are straight forward. Then route via VORs as the air traffickers will think you know what you're doing and give you a direct routing. There is a VFR airway from somewhere like SAU to Biarittz (BTZ), it is scenic to route down the coast but during the week the danger areas are often hot. I tend to stay high (around 8000ft) when I can and talk to ATC all the way. It will get busy as you approach Biarittz. My favourite place to clear customs (both in and out) is now Tours (LFOT) as they required only 2 hours PNR last year. Cross the channel IoW to Cherbourg talking to Plymouth Mil. You will find it a low stress trip if the weather cooperates, French ATC is often more helpful than in the UK.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912912
peter-9363 wrote:Then route via VORs as the air traffickers will think you know what you're doing and give you a direct routing.

I don't think I've ever routed via VORs and they've usually done that anyway.

I think they're just... helpful. :D
By G-JWTP
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912934
My experience,

Clear customs somewhere in N. France. Generally you will have to give a minimum of 24 hrs notice. Normally they don't turn up.

First choice would to fly at a weekend. Most of the Military areas, shooting ranges and other nasties are closed. If you end up putting down at a smaller GA field then there is normally someone about.

M-F if you are high enough you can normally get clearances straight through. The regional FIS controller will help here.

As to weather well it can get a bit foggy along the Biscay coast but generally should be fairly plesant come July.

By the time you get towards Biaritz you will probably have to route down the coast not above 1000' to keep clear of their traffic, do not fret over this because the view is fab and it puts you on the ideal base leg for Rwy 22 at LESO.

Book parking space at LESO because it is limited.

Read this: https://realaeroclubdeespaña.org/dont-l ... cheat-you/

Enjoy the whole thing.

G-JWTP
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#1912940
If operating VFR above FL65-FL115 in France you will tend to fly in straight lines with full service (above FL115 is General Delta airspace, you are unlikely to get cleared above that VFR)

Most of that airspace in Echo Airway (VOR-VOR routes not shown on the VFR maps), the French SIV (sevice d'information de vol) will "clear you straight" along those and handed over here and there with full service...it's controlled airspace for IFR where SIV = ATC = control but not for VFR, SIV = FIS = info but SIV expect you to fly semi-circular levels in those Echo Airways, bizzarly x500ft are north-south...

The amount of en-route VFR flight preparation is close to NIL if you stick to those routes, you don't get much issues with NOTAMS, Restricted Areas, Military Areas once you are on procedural Echo Airway, you also get cleared through Echo, Delta & Charlie zones by simple handover to TMA controllers before getting back to SIV to continue flying Echo routes

PS: PPL can fly those VOR-VOR routes under VFR in France (as one can fly VFR in Echo), there is no need to hold an IR or ATPL and the routes are welk visible in SkyDemon "Airway mode" :thumleft: also, you don't need VOR/GPS/RNAV equipment in your aircraft to fly them in VMC...
Last edited by Ibra on Sat May 28, 2022 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913129
George wrote:I’ll look up Airway Mode not come across that before


S D's 'Airways mode' is very handy esp if flying VFR behind a Garmin 430W which is really geared for IFR flight:

If I need a turning/waypoint VFR ,and there's nothing obvious on the ground/VFR chart, to save entering my WP co-ordinates into garmin, I look up on SD Airways mode and as often as not there's an airways 5 digit WP close enough to use and I can then look it up in Garmin database and enter it in Garmin fpl/. Works most times but occas WP is not in Garmin.

Useful shortcut.... :wink:
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913155
GrahamB wrote:@PeteSpencer You don't have to be in Airways Mode to see/use the IFR waypoints. You can toggle them in VFR mode in the 'Airfields and Waypoints' pop-up/dialogues from the 'Mapping' menu.


Agreed: but onl 1 'keystroke' required 'my way' ! :wink:
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913156
PeteSpencer wrote:
GrahamB wrote:@PeteSpencer You don't have to be in Airways Mode to see/use the IFR waypoints. You can toggle them in VFR mode in the 'Airfields and Waypoints' pop-up/dialogues from the 'Mapping' menu.


Agreed: but onl 1 'keystroke' required 'my way' ! :wink:

No keystrokes at all if you do as I do and leave them toggled on in the VFR chart.
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By Tim Dawson
SkyDemon developer
#1913364
It's right under the Mapping menu on both, but you'll only see it if you've told SkyDemon you want to see IFR features (under planning options).
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1913367
Tim Dawson wrote:It's right under the Mapping menu on both, but you'll only see it if you've told SkyDemon you want to see IFR features (under planning options).


And as if by magic... it appears!!!

Thanks again, SD..
#1913370
I went to San Sebastian one time for landing (funny over water) and one time on my way to Portugal and tried ...several times,without succes.
When i landed,the return the day after was not easy,blue sky in SS and special vfr in Biarritz (which is at a couple of miles).
Meteo is not easy to predict at the ocean and Biarritz is often under clouds with miserable visibility.
SS you need to read the rules on AENA,example you need a ppr for the parking and duration of the parking.
Concerning the military zone (Cazeaux) there are 2 corridors (west and east),prepare both because if they shoot in the ocean,they will not authorize that you take the west corridor.
The weather may change quickly due to the Pyrénées and the ocean.
Many airfields on the way (LFBH,LFDU,LFCD,Mimizan,Biarritz (near SS)
Prepare carefully plan B,if weather is not what you want.
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