Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By George
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912776
I’d love some advice on a potential trip to northern Spain at the end of July returning beginning of August with my missus for a family wedding. I don’t have an IMC rating so it would have to be VFR all the way and back. My fellow group member pilot (similar qualifications) has expressed an interest in coming too so sharing the flying is no problem and I think this could be quite an adventure. Aircraft is an AA5-B so more than capable for load and endurance.

Total flying time not including stops must be about 6 hours from Shobdon. Planning and preparation is ultra important of course let’s take that as read!

What do my learned friends here think about the likelihood of weather playing ball? I have a Plan B but I would really like to do this trip but not be an accident statistic. Any advice on route, planning, alternatives and the like would be most welcome. The event we are attending is fixed of course and I will have to avoid Getthereitis / Gethomeitis of course. Plan B will mean a lot of driving but is doable but not nearly such fun.
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By G-BLEW
Boss Man  Boss Man
#1912779
Almost impossible to say. I've flown from Croatia to the UK with clear skies and unlimited viz, and I've hopped between airfields, made unscheduled stops and taken days to make journeys that should have taken hours.

If you can activate your plan B close to the event, then my plan would be to fly, and then monitor the weather from the week before, initiating plan B if it looks necessary.

The restricted airspace down the west of France can look daunting but it's fine, booking your customs in and out is an increasingly difficult thing, with a lot of airfields bow requiring 48hr notice. MY tip would be to clear customs as soon as possible in France, you then have complete flexibility should you need to divert etc.

Ian
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By George
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912784
Thanks Ian. Yes that airspace looks like you need to get permission sorted well in advance. And we would clear customs as far north as possible too in any case Rennes (?) would be 2.5 hrs on first leg and legs will need to be stretched by then! I would also get a briefing from Simon the Weatherman as well I think!
#1912790
We had our RV6 based in Beziers, S.France and had no trouble flying to San S. With flight plans and customs. But make sure you refuel in France as even with today’s prices far cheaper. My suggestion is to fly to Channel Islands first, refuel there then maybe a main customs hub like Poitier or Limoges or Bordeaux, refuel again for enough fuel to get to
San S and back to one of those ?
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By TomWW
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912797
Its easy enough to do. As long as the weather is playing ball. If you have a bit of flexibility on the days of travel then it should be fine. How easy or difficult it is will depend a lot on you level of comfort with flying in a bit of weather. If your a "don't fly if there is a cloud in the sky" type then probably best not to. But conversely I have seen others undertake flights and get through, when I was not prepared to fly.

The airspace is not nearly as bad as it looks. Because much of the time you will just get cleared straight through. But you do have to have a plan for avoiding any you can't get clearance for. Most of the time I have chosen to fly down the coast and had no problem apart from the odd climb or decent for clearance.

San Sebastian is one of my favorite stops.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912805
From another website, back in January someone paid €32 for landing and one night parking for an Arrow, with a further €10 to pay for non-Schengen handling (which wouldn't apply in your case with a France stop).

In the past, parking had to be requested from operacionesEAS@aena.es but I don't know if that's still the case.
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#1912821
Doable VFR but I suggest you budget 4-5days for your trip, clear customs in France (fuel and check weather) and follow Atlantic coastal line

I doubt straight line today for an important wedding and back tomorrow for work is a good idea even under IFR !

SanSebastian is a nice airport and hassle free (compared to many AENA airport) but don't fuel empty tanks over there for 500nm leg unless you are rich enough, before departure you need to visit ARO/AIS office yo get your printed FPL stamped :thumleft:
#1912837
I've done it in legal VFR but marginal visibility where instrument skills were invaluable. Why not, when you have 5 minutes, do an IMC rating? You will never regret it.
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By Dodo
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912843
The IMC rating is not legal once you leave UK airspace, though the ability to keep the a/c the right way up in cloud remains useful.

I've been to San Sebastian in May 2014 in beautiful weather, but who knows what the forecast will be on the day.

I remember having a difficulty with the San Sebastian refuellers who insisted on a VAT registration number when I bought some fuel.

Bottom line is that I have long given up attempting to fly anywhere for an important meeting where time is critical.
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#1912883
I navved the then partner of a sometime forumite VFR to San Sebastian. No major issues, but we did spend an unplanned night in La Roche sur Yon on the return leg thanks to the weather.

Rob P
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912890
Some years back I commuted from Waltham to San Sebastián on a regular basis. (Every 2-3 weeks for 9 months).

The weather is absolutely unpredictable until about 5 - 7 days ahead. I would suggest :

1) between now and then, start looking at your favourite weather forecasting apps and campaign their forecasts to what actually occured. I took screenshots of their forecasts for 10, 8, 5 and 3 days ahead - then compare each of the forecasts to the METAR & TAF on the day. This will give you confidence on how accurate each app is (at 3, 5 , 10 days ahead).

2) consult our own Dr Simon Keeling at Weatherweb. You can attend his weather course or just use his services to give you a forecast at say 3, 5 and 10 days ahead. He is extremely accurate, particularly within 3-5 days ahead.

3) Plan you trip with enough contingency. With a fixed deadline, and from Shobdon to San Seb and needing “real” VFR, I would suggest you need 1.5 - 2 days of contingency. So if you plan on 1.5 days to get there - you need to set off 3 days before your deadline.

4) work out you plan (B) and decide how long you will need to get there using plan (B). This will enable you set the date / time b6 which you have to decide whether flying there will work - or whether you need to set off via plan (B).
Remember that if plan (B) involves trains, ferries or airline, then you need to how far ahead you need to book in order to guarantee to get there in time for the big event. You don’t want find yourself in a situation where the weather turns out to be unsuitable, then you can’t get a seat on the (alternative) transport, which in turn, could put pressure on you to attempt to fly in unsuitable weather.

My motto is; if you absolutely MUST be there by a certain date and time, then your plan A must be the method that will guarantee that you get there.
Then if, as you get closer, the weather, aircraft, and everything else looks good, then, and only then, switch to flying yourself there.
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