Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912208
EDIT: Just realised meant to put this in students bit! :lol: oh well

2nd edit (26/05): video, does make think what was I chatting about clouds at Leicester. Other than where the were outside the made it difficult to join overhead, but all the RVs managed.



Original text -----------

Can't decide if I'm to ashamed to make a video or not - Some real nosewheel punishment occurring today - I am really annoyed at myself. :roll: Suppose I can do a video on 'How not to land'

Sackville to Leicester to Fenland and back.

I think I was a bit unsettled as there was cloud over Leicester when I arrived which was below the circuit height.
Initially I asked for a straight in landing because of this then cancelled when I could see a good way to the dead side.

Approach was pretty good. Landing firm but fair. But as I reached to apply the brakes I knocked the throttle forwards. Quickly remedied but not before it had shot me off to the left (Wasn't anywhere near leaving the tarmac but not tidy at all). quite a bit and also lifted and bumped the nose wheel. :cyclopsani:

In terms of what I'll do differently next time - I had loads of space to slow down before I had to clear. Why mess around with the brakes at all? Just concentrate on forwards. Not sure if this is an authorised mod, but if possible I might extend the brake handle by an inch or so. I did knock the throttle once before last year at Sackville

Fenland I was carrying too much speed both times. I touched down on the first approach knew it was going to bounce so went around. But then still came in too fast the second time.

In terms of sorting this one, I was probably 5-8 knots too fast, which is a lot in a light aircraft 1 up

Sackville landing was passable. It always looks bumpy there even on good landings.

I suppose the only constellation might be I'm trying to buy it at the end of the season - i.e. YOU break it YOU buy it. Really shocking. Well and I did my Solo Nav, but it wasn't really what I'd call good flying today.

Gonna go sit on the naughty step and think about what I've done :lol:
Last edited by StratoTramp on Thu May 26, 2022 6:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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By Micromouse
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912213
Well you managed to fulfil two of the main criteria of learning any subject. Firstly you know what you did wrong, and secondly you know what you were planning to do to rectify it. It's a learning experience. You didn't break anything, and both you and the aircraft live to fly other day. And you completed your solo nav so I say great learning experiences.

Wayne
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912214
@cotterpot

There is that infamous video of the plane porpoising.

@Micromouse

Can forget I am a student pilot sometimes. :lol:

Just bit annoying as today should have been relatively simple as mostly into wind - And with the speed at Fenland it's also a bit like "you know what you were doing wrong before you did it... So why did you do it again?" :?

Different in the moment. Just one of those days where you find you aren't flying that great for some reason.
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By T6Harvard
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912217
Congrats on the solo nav!

I'd guess 'just one of those days', but you learnt a lot and landing will be better from now on.

Bit worrying about knocking the throttle though - IDK the set up in your aeroplane but is this normally easily avoided? Sit or reach slightly differently? Not have stuff in the way (kneeboard / tech / headset lead)?
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By StratoTramp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912219
Bill McCarthy wrote:Were you “unsure of you’re position” along the way ?


No that bit was good as well as most of the radio comms. Circuits etc. But the former is easy (practically cheating) now because of Skydemon. :lol:

Did plot it on my half mil. I would have been able to do it from that. I do like maps from years of using OS and orienteering.

@ T6 Harvard.

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo ... upralight/

This is the best picture I can find. Probably just me. I have done it once before. The brake lever is actually quite a bit longer ("knurled" grey). But when it is off it is fully forward. If you imagine an angle from my lap I think it is too easy to hit the accelerator on the way past (shorter lever with smooth knob, by the blue strip). Obviously when throttle is off it's all the way back - But of course I would think this because I did it. :lol: Maybe specific to my ergonomics.

The trim is the smallest little dinky one. I haven't hit this yet by mistake :lol:
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#1912224
Well done on the solo nav.
Yes some things to reflect on and learn from. But you've skipped over what I think is in some ways the most important, and nobody else has commented.

You got to your first destination with cloud below circuit height!! WTF? On your first solo nav?
You need to look at the briefing and decision making processes that allowed that to happen. In your position I'd want a detailed discussion with my instructor on that point alone.
You coped with it, which should give you confidence - but nonetheless it shouldn't have come at you as a surprise. For example, at what point in that first leg did you first run into low cloud? Why didn't you go back to Sackville and wait till it lifted?

Brakes are not for slowing you down on the landing roll out. You need to learn not to use them as a matter of course (you seem to be saying that you do this).
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912227
cotterpot wrote:
Many experienced pilots land nose wheel first, pogo along 1 000 m of tarmac, and think nothing of it.


Care to share any names or is it just a throw away comment with no statistics :wink:

My take would be that it's a bit of a throw-away comment, but the reality is that a lot of people land flat, and they only get away without the pogoing because they're flying something with a noseleg that a) isn't very bouncy and b) can take a lot of punishment.

So it's not that far from the truth.

As for stats, just watch landings for a little while almost anywhere, at any time.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1912228
StratoTramp wrote:Just bit annoying as today should have been relatively simple as mostly into wind - And with the speed at Fenland it's also a bit like "you know what you were doing wrong before you did it... So why did you do it again?" :?

Different in the moment. Just one of those days where you find you aren't flying that great for some reason.


Firstly, kudos for posting this. It went a bit tits, you're not proud of it, yet you're talking about it anyway. Fair play :thumleft:

I'd suggest that the reason it went bad is fairly obvious, and at your stage, very understandable. Solo nav, two landings away, weather a bit more difficult than usual, all makes for a high-workload flight. You were inevitably under more pressure than usual, dealing with the low cloud at Leicester.

For whatever reason, perhaps feeling unsettled by the throttle cockup, that pressure remained in the second leg, which translated into not getting your speeds sorted out on the first approach at Fenland, followed by the go-around and having it all to do again.

By then you were under more pressure still - and the 'wanting to get it down' overrode your earlier better decision to go-around.

I'm sure we've all been there (I certainly have) - a bit ragged after a high-workload flight, resulting in poor decision making.

The key is to expect it. Notice the feeling of pressure, and identify it for what it is. Once you've identified it, it's a lot easier to mentally regroup, disregard what went before, and devote yourself exclusively to the only thing now important - in this case flying the approach and landing.

Don't just put it down to 'a bad day' - bad days happen for reasons. You'll avoid them better if you identify the reasons.

I agree with @lobstaboy's comments, but I'd just add a couple of things:

  • At Leicester, it's air-ground. You shouldn't ask them for a straight in approach, as they cannot approve it. You should tell them your intentions, and report your position at appropriate times.
  • If there's low cloud at or just below normal circuit height, it's perfectly Ok (subject to local rules which you should check at the planning stage) to join crosswind, downwind, or base, for a bad weather circuit (ie below normal circuit height. Any of those would be better than a straight in, unless there's no other traffic at all in the circuit. Sounds to me like you need to talk about bad weather circuits with your instructor.
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