Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By NewbieFH
#1911565
Hi,

I’m going a little round in circles, when “upgrading” to flying an arrow (from a warrior) you have to undertake VP Prop and Retractable Training i get that, but how long and do you need to be tested or is just when the instructor says that you know what your doing ?

TIA
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911569
The last person to join our Arrow group was signed off in an hour:

Depends on your existing piloting skills + or - hours I guess.
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911571
It’s a once-off sign off. If it was a turbo Arrow, you’d get that sign-off too.

Iceman 8)
By A4 Pacific
#1911581
NewbieFH

I’m going a little round in circles, when “upgrading” to flying an arrow (from a warrior) you have to undertake VP Prop and Retractable Training i get that, but how long and do you need to be tested or is just when the instructor says that you know what your doing ?


The requirement for differences training is enshrined in EASA PART-FCL.710. The guidance for the specific types and content of differences training can be found in CAP 804. (Section 4, Part H, subpart 1, page 9! :D )

There is only ‘guidance’ on content, it says nothing about hours required. Nor is there any test. The instructor signs your logbook to say training has been completed. For SEP, any differences training is non expiring.
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By Ibra
#1911593
I found high negative correlation between reading POH/AFM/QRH and the hours it takes to sign someone on a new type:

- Some students like their instructor to "read it" for them while they are flying

- Some come well prepared that the only thing they need is a long runway and calm day to crack on with flying

In theory, one can do VP, RG, Turbo, EFIS in one flight
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By Rob P
#1911599
Ibra wrote:In theory, one can do VP, RG, Turbo, EFIS in one flight


I did multi, retracts, c/s prop and turbo all at the same time.

Rob P
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By TLRippon
#1911625
“Complex”, that often misused word.

An arrow is a simple aircraft: the word “Complex”, as far as the regulations go, refer to aircraft far more complex than an Arrow.

Differences training, if it is done properly, should include a briefing on the workings of each component, the emergency drills, failure paths and operation modes for each component in which you are being instructed. The flight element should include use and failure of every aspect of the differences. I would be surprised if a complete novice could thoroughly capture this in an hour. I would expect at least four or five hours if it is being done properly. If you are an experienced pilot who has had some exposure to faster aircraft without these differences it may happen more quickly but this is not a race and shouldn’t be taken lightly.
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By A4 Pacific
#1911632
CAP 804 offers the ‘guidance’ on differences training and what should be covered. There is no figure given for the number of flying hours the training might take. Anything other than that guidance in CAP 804 therefore becomes personal opinion. Though that may well be based upon experience.
By Lefty
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911666
TLRippon wrote:“Complex”, that often misused word.

An arrow is a simple aircraft: the word “Complex”, as far as the regulations go, refer to aircraft far more complex than an Arrow.

Differences training, if it is done properly, should include a briefing on the workings of each component, the emergency drills, failure paths and operation modes for each component in which you are being instructed. The flight element should include use and failure of every aspect of the differences. I would be surprised if a complete novice could thoroughly capture this in an hour. I would expect at least four or five hours if it is being done properly. If you are an experienced pilot who has had some exposure to faster aircraft without these differences it may happen more quickly but this is not a race and shouldn’t be taken lightly.


What he said.
I suggest reading the POH and getting to really understand how the CS prop and the retractable gear work, and how that changes the aircraft’s handling and the emergency procedures. Read the “detailed emergency procedures” in the POH - you will save yourself lots of time in the aircraft.
For example, what should you do with the propeller control following and inflight engine failure? Whether / when should you lower the gear during a forced landing after an engine failure? Etc etc.