Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Talkdownman
#1911258
chevvron wrote:
> NATS trained ATCO Cadets were trsined to PPL standard at one time.

There is a world of difference being an ATCO once trained to PPL standard, and a widely experienced ATCO with a full flight instructor rating and multi-thousand flight hours.
Iceman liked this
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911289
Fort Pierce is a standard customs entry point into the US when coming in from the Bahamas, that I’ve used before. One wonders whether the passenger was sat with the pilot after that initial severe upset or whether he made his way forward from the back in order to recover the aircraft.

Iceman 8)
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By Lockhaven
#1911293
The passenger must have had hands on aircraft controls before either a real aircraft flying as a passenger learning the basics or some kind of home flight sim.

There is no way someone with zero flying experience jumps from the rear of an aircraft into the right seat and recovers from an unusual attitude to then calmly fly up coast descend and make one left hand 270 degree turn on to final and land off a straight in approach, the give away was when he announced his ROD as 550 fpm, that's a fairly accurate statement from someone who has no idea about flying an aircraft.
AlanM, chevvron, Iceman and 3 others liked this
By Cessna571
#1911326
Wonder why he’s so media shy?
If I landed a Caravan I’d be all over it.

Mind you, I’m a pilot, maybe that says something about pilots.

Maybe it proves he definitely isn’t a. pilot!

(Cue some old jokes)
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By akg1486
#1911331
I try to do pretty comprehensive pre-flight briefings with first-time pax in particular about what will happen and what to do in an emergency, but I never cover what to do if I pass out. Anyone doing that? I guess showing the radio button wouldn’t be amiss.
By Cessna571
#1911332
akg1486 wrote:
> I try to do pretty comprehensive pre-flight briefings with first-time pax
> in particular about what will happen and what to do in an emergency, but I
> never cover what to do if I pass out. Anyone doing that? I guess showing
> the radio button wouldn’t be amiss.

I point out their PTT and say “no need to push that to talk to me, that’s what you’d push to talk to someone on the ground”.

That usually illicit’s a “so, if I push that I’m talking directly to air traffic control?” or some such.

That’s about the length of my “if I have a heart attack” briefing.

Not sure what else I’d say without worrying them.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911334
Talkdownman wrote:
> chevvron wrote:
> > NATS trained ATCO Cadets were trsined to PPL standard at one time.
>
> There is a world of difference being an ATCO once trained to PPL standard, and a
> widely experienced ATCO with a full flight instructor rating and multi-thousand
> flight hours.

True, but there's also a world of difference between a controller who doesn't know how to fly, and one who knows where the main bits are in the cockpit and enough to describe the basics of how to fly an aeroplane.

Now having said that, I'm going to strike a discordant note. I listened to the RT, and wasn't at all impressed with the controller. He spent a lot of time worrying about radio frequencies and the transponder, in my opinion even *suggesting* that a non-pilot handling should try and change frequency could end in disaster. Continuously using the aeroplane's callsign instead of, say, asking and using the handling pax's name did not strike me as helpful. He really should have shunted all other traffic onto another frequency. Similarly, in a noisy cockpit environment, with handling pax probably utterly saturated, starting to try and make use of a cellphone didn't strike me as faintly helpful - if he had 2-way on the ground with an instructor, he should have had that instructor getting to a radio on the frequency in use PDQ (and maybe that eventually happened).

He could also, for example have done a quick "all stations" broadcast to see if there was an instructor on frequency anywhere.

As seen by me, there was a lot of luck involved here, hindered, not helped by rather poor handling of the situation by the controller.

G
By patowalker
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911336
I though Juan Browne's explanation for the use of a cell phone made sense. The passenger could not change frequency and was flying out of range of the one he was on. Duplex communication was also advantageous in that situation, compared to simplex communication.
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911337
On Avidyne and Garmin panels, 121.5 is one push button away with no numeral selection required. If they’d wanted him to change frequency then that would have been by far the best option and he would then have come up on a frequency that everybody monitors. I appreciate though that controllers may not know this, the passenger probably was unable to identify the avionics and that there would still have been reticence on the part of the passenger to do so.

Iceman 8)
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911342
Given the pax struggled to find the Tx Ident button, I think that was telling about his understanding of the avionics. Also his use of the phrase "10-4" instead of "Roger" indicated strongly to me that his RT experience was from CB radio, not from aircraft radio. That is very different kit.

Re: your point [usermention=1307]@Iceman[/usermention] , I'd tend to think that the most knowledgeable controller in the world, won't really have much clue for most aeroplanes in most circumstances, what sort of panel is in that cockpit - so they do need to work with the simplest possible principles.

G
User avatar
By Talkdownman
#1911366
Genghis the Engineer wrote:there's also a world of difference between a controller who doesn't know how to fly, and one who knows where the main bits are in the cockpit and enough to describe the basics of how to fly an aeroplane


I would be interested to learn if such a scenario has ever been included in UK ATC ABES Training ('Abnormalities and Emergency Situations', if that is what it is still called). It's by no means the first time this has happened. For another example search for N559DW...