Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Rjk983
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1910474
Can anyone confirm if the vector app is not available at present?

I carried out a permanent install of the PAW this week and we took the aircraft on a test flight yesterday. The mode s track is available in the usual apps but when I tried vector yesterday there was no record to show.

I wondered if it was just a lag between the flight and the upload to the vector database so tried to check again today. However when trying to view it today there is nothing on the vector page except for the notes. No box to insert the HEX Code and no background vector diagram waiting to show data.

I’ve tried on two different devices and using home Wi-Fi and mobile internet with the same result.

Is anyone able to use vector today?
#1910945
RichJordan wrote:
> Seems to be working now.
>
> Hadn’t seen it before, but prompted by this thread have had a look.
>
> Really interesting, shows almost exactly what I expected, big shadow behind
> my aircraft.

Which *might* mean that you never flew near enough to a receiver with your back end pointing at it. Just be careful what conclusions you draw :thumright:
#1910997
gaznav wrote:
> Which *might* mean that you never flew near enough to a receiver with your back end
> pointing at it. Just be careful what conclusions you draw :thumright:

Highly unlikely given the density of ATOM stations now present in the UK, so the OP conclusion are highly likely to be correct

[usermention=18167]@RichJordan[/usermention]
Can you describe your setup?
Emitter type
Antenna Location (interior, exterior, front, rear etc)
Airframe type

Thx
Lee
#1911006
Hi Lee,

It’s a Rosetta on top of the dash. Airframe is carbon composite and there’s an (almost) full bulkhead behind the cockpit, which I think is what causes the shadow. I will at some point move to external antenna.

I’m very pleased with how well PAW works in my aircraft, especially since the recent relay functionality was introduced.
#1911023
RichJordan wrote:
> Hi Lee,
>
> It’s a Rosetta on top of the dash. Airframe is carbon composite and there’s
> an (almost) full bulkhead behind the cockpit, which I think is what causes
> the shadow. I will at some point move to external antenna.
>
> I’m very pleased with how well PAW works in my aircraft, especially since
> the recent relay functionality was introduced.

Hi Rich
Absolutely, external antenna is the way forward, especially as you have a carbon airframe, this is very good at blocking RF signals. External antenna on this type of aircraft will have a huge impact in performance.

> I’m very pleased with how well PAW works in my aircraft, especially since the recent relay functionality was introduced.
I am pleased to hear that, because of course, the goal of the relay is to promote what we refer to as multi-path data. I am sure you have heard by now, as there have been some quiet whispers of the work we have been doing to integrate Cellular into the air picture. This is part of the investigations with EASA on the SRD860/Cellular project. We have a number of users trialing this technology in the UK right now, and we plan to announce a larger beta program shortly

By the way, we have been analyzing this type of data for a couple of years now, and I can confidently tell you that, the antenna position makes a huge difference in performance, where airframes act as blockers to RF signals, anyone who tells you it is simply power, has not studied the data. simply look at some of the FLARM performance using external antenna where they are outputting a meager 25mw of power

Can I ask what is your aircraft ?

Thx
Lee
By Rjk983
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911026
Lee, is there a map of current atom ground stations? As per my original post we have just set up our external antennas and it would be helpful to know which rough area is most likely to give us good all round coverage for test flying.
#1911043
I just have PAw mounted in the aeroplane. Through SD and bluetooth it tells me about relevant traffic (disclaimer - some of).

What is Vector and what can it do to make my life better? Or is it just 'there' working seamlessly in the background.

I can see little masts on SkyDemon. :D

Rob P
By Rjk983
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911044
Someone more qualified than I will be along shortly… vector basically allows you to see up to 30 days of data showing direction and distance from your aircraft that you were seen by an atom grid ground station. I don’t believe it gives you anything of use while you are in flight but it can be used (post flight) to review your installation and work out better places to put the antennas if you are using it as a completely portable system.

If you search Pilotaware vector you will get a website, you enter the aircraft hex Id into the box halfway down the webpage and you get back a graph or a round display. It has been discussed before on some of the many EC threads on flyer forum with all of the usual arguing.

I believe it works with any EC device so you don’t have to have Pilotaware to use it. But they have removed the Mode S functionality as it was swamping their server with data.

All caveated with “I think” in big bold capitals :D
Rob P liked this
#1911046
That's fine. Nothing to concern me, I can just go back to listening out as I bimble.

Though I did just take a peek (Hex 40456B). Very pretty it looks too. I guess we needn't worry about external aerials.

Many thanks.

Rob P
By Rjk983
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1911050
Rob P wrote:
> That's fine. Nothing to concern me, I can just go back to listening out as
> I bimble.
>
> Though I did just take a peek (Hex 40456B). Very pretty it looks too. I
> guess we needn't worry about external aerials.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Rob P

For fear of appearing to be a stalker, am I right in thinking you hooked up a certified gps to your extended squitter modes s tpdr to give yourself adsb out? In which case you are definitely being seen in almost every direction.

But if you filter it to PAW only on the vector thing you will see that you get very few returns from you 3oclock and half seven directions, presumably your wings are masking these directions,

So if someone is climbing up to you from these two positions, masked from view and from PAW by your wings then you may not see them until very late. In your installation it is the PAW only view that will show you which direction and how far out you are likely to be alerted to other traffic that is only being broadcast to you from the air. I understand the PAW atom grid also sends traffic to you (therefore the masking is not so important) but I may be wrong on that.

Of course if you fly like a Battle of Britain ace and keep weaving you’ll be fine :D

Gaznav will no doubt be along in a moment to tell you that you can’t make any of these inferences from the vector chart and it is all rubbish… :lol: :lol: