Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By songbird
#1895239
Hi All,

I’m new to Flyer - hope I’m in the right section for this post.

I’m considering buying a Cessna 152/172 to fly about 12 hours a month and hire out to others, too. I’m looking for approximate fixed & variable costs if anyone who owns a light aircraft doesn’t mind sharing. (excluding the cost of the aircraft itself) e.g.

- Insurance
- Hangar fees
- 50/150 hr checks
- Fuel p/h
- ARC
- Wear & tear
- Anything else I’ve missed


Thanks in advance
H
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895249
Depends where you are but a rough guide
Insurance -£2-2.5kpa
- Hangar fees £2-3kpa
- 50/150 hr checks £700ea
- Fuel p/h £40-60
- ARC - Silly money
- Wear & tear - lots - allow at least £10/hr for a new engine based on getting one with zero hours (replacement £24k+ and will probably need replacing around 2,200 hrs so if it already has 1,000 hrs double the £10/hr)
- Anything else I’ve missed - parts will cost lots as you need certified parts.
Buy something on a permit instead, maintenance will cost you a fraction of a certificated aircraft and these days you can hire it out, almost certainly a more interesting aircraft that will handle better as well!
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By Rob P
#1895252
On a really good year, out here in the wilds of Norfolk, we sometimes got away with an annual at around £2,500 on the PA22, a similarly basic aircraft. But for budget I would start at £4,000.

And thinking about it, this was 15 years back so maybe add a bit more, before you add a South of England weighting to it - assuming you are in the south?

Rob P
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895256
It varies a lot depending on where you are.

- Insurance - Probably starts at £800 a year for personal use for a 2 seater, £1200 for a 4 seater, depending on your hours, experience and NCD, going up to something like £5000 if you want to rent it out.

- Hangar fees - Something like tuppence-halfpenny a month a Wick (!), up to about £700 a month at Leeds Bradford. Average between £150 and £350 I guess, with £150 being on grass strips £350-£400 generally at airfields in the South East.

- 50/150 hr checks - 50 hour about £300-£500, I'm not sure of the rules now, whether it's 100 hour or 150 hour which is the big one (anyone?). You could be looking at close to the cost of an annual, so maybe not much change out of £2000? Some people just choose to bring the annual inspection forward.

- Fuel p/h - I'd say about £50 for a 2 seater, £70 for a 4 these days.

- ARC - Maybe £1000, on top of the cost of the annual inspection which could be anywhere from £2000 up.

- Wear & tear - Difficult to say. Budget £30k for an engine overhaul at 2000 hours. A lot of it is covered at Annual time, making for a £3k, £4k, £5k, £6k, £7k or up annual.
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By ROG
#1895272
fixed costs----10000
flying costs144 hours a £90 to cover 50 hours---13000
so look at 20 to 25 k
Obviously if you dont pay parking-2500 or insurance--2000 or annual-4000 or have a raft--250 or check life jackets -50 or have any unexpected extras( like new flaps ) it could be less.

That"s why I joined a group.
Seriousl;y the only guys I know who own their own planes--dont hire them out--are millionaires.
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By Dodo
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895281
I posted this in 2014 so you will need to add at least 8 years inflation. Because I didn't hire it out the engine could run beyond its usual time between overhauls.

I bought a 1961 C172 in Oct 2009, and in the first 2 years ownership flew about 100hrs/year. I paid £17k for it, and had to spend about £2500 on initial repairs, (I knew it needed a new cylinder and various other bits and pieces so that was figured into the price). The engine was lowish hours, but more than 12 years since major overhaul so running on condition.

Fixed (ish) costs...Hangarage, (expensive S/E England) was £300 pcm (outside parking would have been half), Insurance c. 100hrs/year, £995, Planned maintenance (annual and 1 x 50 hr check each year), was about £8k/year (mainly because, even though "planned," unexpected things turn up at routine checks in old machines). Unplanned maintenance, i.e. things have gone wrong and needed fixing, cost me another £1700.

Variable costs.....Avgas 36lph wheels up to wheels down. Oil, 1 lt every 7 or 8hours, landing fees, (lots).

Total cost per hour, wet, including VAT, but excluding landing fees was £196 per hour chock to chock.

I am sure that if I had bought a much newer machine I would have had to spend a lot less on maintenance.

I sold it 4 years later for a little less than I paid for it so one can also factor in a bit for depreciation...say £4 per hour making £200/hr in total.
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By Genghis the Engineer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895283
In my opinion the best way to gauge running costs on various types is to look at syndicate share adverts.

If an aeroplane share is 1/6th and costing £100/month and £100/hr, sole ownership is pretty similarly going to cost around £7200pa and still around £100/hr at a similar airfield.

It won't give you the breakdown of course, and lower utilisation and a smaller number of named pilots will give you some savings - but not all that many.

What it won't tell you about is the large number of annual hours somebody has to put into care and management of the aeroplane- usually more hours than it flies however.

G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer on Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
By IO390
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1895284
One thing to bear in mind:

You've already had the "permit aircraft are cheaper to maintain" line. That's only true because permit aircraft owners do the work themselves. You can operate a certified aircraft for a lot less than you might think if you are closely involved in the maintenance, as you would be on a permit aircraft.
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By A4 Pacific
#1895285
G-JWTP wrote:If you decide for a 150/152.

May I politely suggest the permit route.

Something like this is far more fun.

https://www.afors.com/aircraftView/5313 ... son-Condor

G-JWTP


That’s a nice machine.

Of course you can also find a few Cessnas on Permits too.

This may be true?

You can operate a certified aircraft for a lot less than you might think if you are closely involved in the maintenance, as you would be on a permit aircraft.


But this is misleading.

That's only true because permit aircraft owners do the work themselves.
By BoeingBoy
#1895290
If hangaring at any reasonable sized field, insuring for hire (and bear in mind this will be much more expensive than personal figures) along with maintenance by a CAMO/CAO I would budget for at least £10k a year. Probably more when defect rectification is allowed for.

As mentioned, you will then have engine fund to consider if you wish to keep the aircraft long term but the real cost will be in having your aircraft trashed by renters who won't care about its upkeep. Expect the interior to be soiled by mud/oil/ballpoint pen etc. Also if not operating on a Hobbs meter, expect the engine to be run at full power more often.

If you intend to fly 12 hours a month (difficult in UK weather unless maxing out in the summer) I would look for a share rather than sole ownership.
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