Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Dodo
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1894368
Following on from the "hanging up my headset?" thread, and prompted by this advert, https://afors.com/aircraftView/54012/Aliz-Discus-SSDR-trike-Simonini-Mini-3, I wonder if anyone here has converted from "spamcans" to flexwing microlights.

I did 3 axis microlight differences training a few years ago, but wasn't really taken with any of the aircraft I flew, but I do think the flexwings look interesting and there are some really cheap, transportable options.

I am nervous of the idea that you push, rather than pull to flare, and think it might be difficult to "unlearn" 30 odd years and about 2,000 flying hours of muscle memory.

I'm also nearer 70 than 60 now, and not very bouncy, which is why I haven't yet had a go at hang-gliding, even though it looks fun, as I don't think my knees and ankles could take the landings.

How hard is the tricycle type airframe of flexwing microlights on the aging musculoskeletal system?

Has anyone made the change, particularly in what I shall euphemistically call "late middle age" and how was it? And did you stick with it?

Thanks.
#1894370
After, I guess, 40 plus years of flying I am not sure if a conversion to something which is so fundamentally different, is from a human performance point of view, the way forward.

I say that as your friend.
Last edited by Flyin'Dutch' on Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nick, Dodo, Shoestring Flyer and 3 others liked this
#1894373
I haven't done it but I know people who have. This is what they tell me:
- in flight the difference isn't a problem. You are flying the wing and what that does is pretty much what you already know.
- the hold off and landing take a bit of concentration. But it's so different that your muscle memory from before isn't going to interfere
- steering on the ground is the hardest thing because it's the other way round and does mean you need to retrain your reflexes as it's similar enough to fool you.

Go get some lessons and see what you think.
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#1894376
I had a few hundred hours on SEP and 3-axis microlights before I switched to flexwings.

I took a few more hours I suspect than an ab-initio to get used to the unusual controls, but once mastered going between a conventional aeroplane and a flexwing is like going between a car and a bicycle: they are so totally different it's really no issue.

I flew them in parallel with other aircraft for about 400hrs over 15 year or so, owning or part owning several. They are wonderful for the experience, the ability to land anywhere, for the demands of operating one well and accurately, and for the joys of owning an aeroplane that's simultaneously so complicated and so simple.

Eventually I just decided I preferred other sorts of flying more and stopped, but I had a lot of fun in the meantime.

My biggest caution would be that flexwings are physically very demanding, not just in flight (an hour on a turbulent summers day and you'll be absolutely exhausted) but the rigging and de-rigging on the ground. That may challenge you more than flying the aeroplane.

G
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#1894390
I did have a PPL (A) when I did another PPL on Flexwings abroad.
I can confirm that the instructor was initially concerned about the push-pull but actually once you get the feel of it it's just not an issue.
Your brain will be reminded what's required by tweaking your flightpath all the way to a landing.
I totally agree with everything GtE has written. :thumleft:
Go try it, you'll have a blast even if you then decide it's not for you!
#1894406
lobstaboy wrote:- in flight the difference isn't a problem. You are flying the wing and what that does is pretty much what you already know.
- the hold off and landing take a bit of concentration. But it's so different that your muscle memory from before isn't going to interfere
- steering on the ground is the hardest thing because it's the other way round and does mean you need to retrain your reflexes as it's similar enough to fool you.


I think that's all spot on. I did exactly what you're thinking of a few years back, after years of flying GA and most recently some years on a Robin DR300 series..... (OK, NOT a 'spam can' but definitely nothing like a flexwing..... :wink: )

I did indeed find that in the air I seemed to just mentally "fly the aerofoil" and it was all a reasonable doddle once I'd got used to the general environment. Landing was more of a business, not least because the lovely open view from the trike consistently suckered me into looking down over the nose.... :( :shock:

Ground handling was generally a disaster. Left, right, who the heck knows. Anyone watching would have been reduced to either tears or hysterics.... But got there in the end, and passed a GST. For various reasons I never then persued flexwings..... I'd got involved in an LAA 3-axis in the mean time and that sucked in all the time. But the flexwing flying was an absolute hoot, some of the best fun I've had in an aeroplane, great to learn something different, and I don't even slightly regret doing it even although I didn't stick with it.....

I do agree with GtE, though, that they can be physically demanding. I was in my 50's and found it fine, not sure how I'd find it now. Reading the BMAA mag, lots of (but not all) older folk move from flex to 3-axis.... But that seems to be more about fancying a cabin heater..... :wink:

Best plan would definitely be to have a few lessons without signing up to anything long-term and just see what you think!
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#1894511
Tried to convert a few years ago. As a long time motorcyclist I loved the idea so gave converting a good go but ultimately just could not land the thing. Flying it was incredibly exciting and raw and I do regret not being able to get the hang of landing but I decided I was throwing money away and left it as a nice memory. I was learning from a very short (in spam can terms) airfield and I do think I may have stood more chance with a less scary approach and more forgiving runway.

The control reversal was never a problem and I once heard or read someone say to imaging that you are a kid running around with a broom handle pretending to be an aeroplane. That worked!

Apart from about 3 hours in July it's also quite chilly up there, though there are some good heated clothing solutions on the motorcycle market that could prove useful.

Give it a go. The bars on some models are heavier than others. I found the Quantum quite a bit easier than the Quik, but my memory may be playing tricks.

You know, I may just give it another go..
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#1894514
Had one trial lesson a few years back. Thought I would feel dangerously exposed, but it was great.

Despite logically knowing about the control reversal and thinking about 'flying the wing' I still managed to turn it the wrong way but I'm sure with practice it would come right.

Do the trial flight and take it from there. In fact, let me know where and when and I might come and join you.
#1894520
I did this 10 or more years ago. after 300hrs GA thought I'd give flex wing a go.
Went to Portugal for a week had a fantastic time, really got into flying these machines.

As others have said in flight bar control wasn't an issue.
It took a good few hours to switch off the, never push the nose down on short final.
With very low momentum and high drag you must get the nose down to keep coming down over the threshold. -

What really got me, and almost came to grieve several time was the ground steering.
Coming from tailwheel GA the reversed steering on a flex wing was a big issue - push right to turn left etc.

Coming back to UK the reality of flex wing flying in England really hit home.
Purchased a Quasar 503
The effort to get the wing attached to the frame and the aircraft rigged is not to be underestimated.
Anything more than a gentle breeze will have a battle to keep the wing on its trolly whilst rigging.
Pushing the wing, on a trolly, over grass – Ahhhh…
Practicality of going somewhere - Quantum and Quiks are faster. But the Quasar at 50mpg cruise meant I had to change my priorities and mindset in flying. Especially with a headwind....
Summer evening flying for 30 minutes was very good fun, going anywhere to meet up was a real challenge.

Ultimately, I went back to GA after 18 months.
Give it a go absolutely, with the understanding of the exciting differences, but also the challenges.
Jon
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#1894598
I find that they make great second aircraft. I have flown far and wide in flexwings; a modest channel hop becomes an adventure, but turbulence is a workout, speeds are low and the weather protection is rather limited.

For a summer's evening bimble, they're unbeatable imho. Touring, certainly possible, but challenging for weather limits, speed and comfort.

That being said, I do keep thinking about an SSDR/Sub 70 to keep de-rigged in the back of the campervan.